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Gun Tragedy, 5th grader suicide

The father should be tried for some form of murder, accessory, contributing to, whatever. Guns don't kill people, 12 year old boys who have guns do.

I'm willing to bet that father never bought his guns thinking one of his family would die as a result. He may have been a contributor to a forum like this telling us all about how owning guns is a right, and how guns prevent a violent act every 13 seconds or maybe he called gun control advocates bed wetters. I don't know. I'm also sure he's grieving now.

I truly feel sorry for all those involved. I really don't know what the father was thinking. I can't help but think his opinion on the 2nd Amendment hasn't changed though. Is our country safer because of private gun ownership. How awful if a reporter would ask that grieving father now. But just maybe, someone should.
 
Here's what it's really all about:

"I think in the end a scared little boy took his life because he was just cornered and he didn't know what to do," Roby said.
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Nothing at all to do with guns, really. If not for the guns, he would have chosen some other method.

It's horrible to read about someone taking their life in such a fashion. But it's downright despicable to see people sieze upon such a tragedy as an excuse to further their own political agenda, especially by claiming:

Chalk up another one for having guns in the house and not secured, etc.
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when the guns were, in fact, locked up! :mad:
 
DavidJames said:
The father should be tried for some form of murder, accessory, contributing to, whatever.
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:mad: :mad: :mad:

Exactly!!!!

But don't worry, a jury that half of its members would be gun owners would think that maybe law is too severe to apply to his case...they would find a good excuse, the kid was sad... it would kill itself anyway...

Why should I care? Go ahead gun owners , make lawyers wealthy.
 
Cleopatra said:


:mad: :mad: :mad:

Exactly!!!!

But don't worry, a jury that half of its members would be gun owners would think that maybe law is too severe to apply to his case...they would find a good excuse, the kid was sad... it would kill itself anyway...
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Were I on such a jury, I would acquit the father without a second of hesitation or remorse. And I think it's unthinkable to charge a parent with murder just because the child committed suicide! What kind of monsters are you? A father goes through a tragedy like this and you want to drag him into court!!!!

He was in no way responsible for what happened! He had the guns locked up! He had taught his son about gun safety!

What if he instead had taken all the Tylenol from the cupboard and killed himself that way? Slashed his wrists with a kitchen knife? Smothered himself with a plastic grocery bag? Or just ran out into traffic? Would you still be calling for the father to be charged with murder??? I think not. The mere fact that you have something against the weapon the boy chose and making that the determining factor for directly accusing the father of murder speaks volumes about how the issue has twisted your minds.

You people make me sick.
 
How simple it would be if eliminating guns would solve this kind of problem.

Davey's classmates told police that he was picked on by other pupils and had talked for months about killing students and teachers at the 548-student Rock L. Butler Middle School.
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"I think in the end a scared little boy took his life because he was just cornered and he didn't know what to do," Roby said.
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"We all heard a gunshot but everyone thought it was thunder," said 13-year-old sixth-grader Kristen Smith, who said Davey was "really shy" and got picked on because he weighed nearly 170 pounds.
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If I thought for a moment that outlawing handguns would stop lonely, sad children from doing desperate things I would give them up in a second.

The sad truth is that this is what happens in a society where "tough it out" is a mantra and abuse against children is overlooked as childhood games.

When I was a kid, I sublimated the rage I felt against other children for singling me out by writing stories, playing role-playing games, and finding other, creative outlets for it. Children today are told that playing video games is okay, but that having thoughts about killing or about violence are a sickness.

I'll bet no one ever listened to David, or talked at him instead of to him about what was going on. He probably thought that the rest of his life was going to be just like middle school.
 
"when the guns were, in fact, locked up!"

Just how "locked up" do you think they are if a 5th grader can EASILY get access to them?

Locked up does not mean put in a cabinet somewhere. Locked up means that there is NO way your son can have access to them at ANY time, for example. "But in a fateful twist, he hung the key on a wall hook after finding it underneath the couch just two days earlier." The father

1) didn't know the location of the key to all the guns and ammo

2) found the key, and then hung it up in a non-secured visible place that anyone could have found (on a wall hook).

3) son found the key, perhaps was the one who moved it in the first place and hid it under the couch perhaps, etc. , and the rest we unfortunately know

So much for the claim of 'it was locked up'.

-Who
 
Whodini said:
Just how "locked up" do you think they are
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According to the article:

A hunter like many others in Tioga County, Roby enrolled his son in a hunter-safety course and made sure his own weapons were locked up. But in a fateful twist, he hung the key on a wall hook after finding it underneath the couch just two days earlier.

Roby speculated that after he left the house, Davey used the key to take the two handguns, three rifles, two shotguns and ample ammunition.
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if a 5th grader can EASILY get access to them?
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Easily? He had to get the key, open the cabinet, get the guns, get the ammunition, load the guns, etc...It's not like they were left lying around, which is exactly how you're trying to portray it!

Locked up does not mean put in a cabinet somewhere. Locked up means that there is NO way your son can have access to them at ANY time, for example.
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No, locked up means locked up. Meaning you can only get at them with a key. Which is exactly what happened.

What your asking for is a ridiculous and unattainable level of inaccessibility...and I think you know it.

THEY WERE LOCKED UP. And none of your smoke and mirrors changes that fact.
 
shanek,

"THEY WERE LOCKED UP"

"Were" is right.

If locked up to you means that a 5th grader can get access to it, please, never work at the bank I go to.

Unless you can understand how not knowing where the key is (apparently something as important as the key was lost under the couch!), then having the key hanging up (on a wall hook), not secured (on a wall hook), in a public place (on a wall hook), where anybody has access to it (on a wall hook), is IDENTICAL to not having the guns locked up, then I suggest you check out the "How's My A*s?" poll in Banter and vote 'My head is way up it!".

For example, something simple as a combination lock could have prevented this most horrible event from occuring. But no, let's pretend it was locked up because there technically was a key and a cabinet... Unfortunately:

available key = not locked up

-Who
 
I agree Whodini. If I had guns locked up, I wouldn want to make damn sure nobody but me could get to them under any circumstances. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable leaving a key in a place where a child could get at it. Even if I had no reason to believe my kid would do anything with them. I bet you if you asked the father in that story whether it was dangerous for his son to know where the key for the case was, he would have likely said his son was a good, responsible kid and there was no danger.

But, I also don't want to oversimplify things either, and say that the guns were the sole reason this kid did what he did.
The kid obviously had some serious issues, and there likely would have been trouble with him regardless of whether he had access to guns or not. But, I suppose that could have been the difference between life and death.

This brings up another question. A lot of people on this board are saying that guns are good for personal protection. However, if they are locked up all the time, how does that help against an intruder. Is there really time during a break-in to gain access to locked up weapons? Perhaps sometimes, but I'm willing to bet most of the time the answer is no.
It seems to me the best place to keep a gun would be right at your beside. Locked up at your beside, I suppose?
Any thoughts?
 
Cleopatra said:


:mad: :mad: :mad:

Exactly!!!!

But don't worry, a jury that half of its members would be gun owners would think that maybe law is too severe to apply to his case...they would find a good excuse, the kid was sad... it would kill itself anyway...

Why should I care? Go ahead gun owners , make lawyers wealthy.
Click to expand...

There is no external cost to anyone regarding suicide. Nothing. Nada. Sure the family will grieve but every person has the right to kill themselves and nothing you, me or the tooth fairy is going to say can stop them from doing it. People kill themselves without regard to anyone else. Suicide is the ultimate form of narcissism. I have no sympathy for anyone that commits suicide. Suicide is weakness.

Organisms that kill themselves in nature cannot cope with life and therefore choose self-termination.

JK
 
A friend of mine is a cop who saw a young man who hung himself from a ceiling fan.

How much more will we put up with before we finally ban leather belts and ceiling fans!
 
corplinx said:
A friend of mine is a cop who saw a young man who hung himself from a ceiling fan.

How much more will we put up with before we finally ban leather belts and ceiling fans!
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Wow, that fan must have been bolted into the ceiling pretty well.

JK
 
corplinx said:
A friend of mine is a cop who saw a young man who hung himself from a ceiling fan.

How much more will we put up with before we finally ban leather belts and ceiling fans!
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't make my point with the idea in my mind that guns should be banned.
I was just expressing my own opinion about how wary I would be about having guns in my house that are in any way accesible to anyone other than myself. (especially that of a child).
I was speaking for myself, and no one else.
I wonder if the father of the dead kid might share similar sentiments now?
 
I also hope the father had the guns and ammo stored in different locations.

The question of 'How can we keep them locked up and still use them effectively in break-ins?' is a great question. A keypad combination could be entered in very quickly I would think. At least as quickly or quicker than fumbling around for a key in the dark. This has the added bonus of a child not being able to find a key.

-Who
 
If he had taken a mouthful of pills, would we be criticizing the father for not locking up the medicine cabinet?

If he hung himself with a belt, would we criticize the dad for not locking the closet?
 
corplinx said:
If he had taken a mouthful of pills, would we be criticizing the father for not locking up the medicine cabinet?

If he hung himself with a belt, would we criticize the dad for not locking the closet?
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No, but I would have felt better if the kids at Columbine had taken pills or belts to school with them. It certainly would have caused a lot less damage than guns.

As I said in a previous post, I'm not insinuating that everything would have been just fine for this kid if he hadn't had access to guns. He was obviously a very troubled child. But if had gone ahead with his plans to use the weapons on other students and teachers, then the accessibility to guns would look a lot more horrible than it was.

My overall point is that if you have guns in the house, keep them secure beyond any degree of doubt. That doesn't infringe on anyone's rights does it.
If you think that it does infringe on your rights, then by all means. Store them any way you want. Far be it from me to trample your right to bear arms (albeit, bear them irresponsibly).
 
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