Gun Control is ridiculous

shanek said:
Yes, invalid cross-cultural comparisons with not even the basest attempts at doing a regression analysis. If that's the best you've got, it's worthless.
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50 of our 713 murders were caused by guns. That's a plain fact. What's your point?

You were trying to claim that guns would have prevented some of those murders. Unless guns would have prevented more than 50, the gun control lobby is ahead.
 
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baron said:
It reminds me (circuitously) of a reality TV show on Sky the other night. It was basically following around cops in some US city. One incident was a drunk, totally off his head, firing a shotgun in a crowded park. One cop took the gun away, apologising, saying "We'll give it you back tomorrow but you must understand you can't just shoot the place up." Then they went on their way! In the UK the guy would have done 5 years, and rightly so.
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That is DEFINITELY not representative of the United States as a whole. My guess would be that the incident you are refering to happened in a small rural town. Any moderately sized city and there would have been much harsher consequences.
 
Quad4_72 said:
That is DEFINITELY not representative of the United States as a whole. My guess would be that the incident you are refering to happened in a small rural town. Any moderately sized city and there would have been much harsher consequences.
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Oh, that's OK then.

*shakes head*
 
shanek said:
Well, no, that's not the point. If someone has broken into your home, you don't know what he's going to do. And above all, you don't know how he's going to react when he sees you. It is quite reasonable to believe that there is the possibility that your life is in jeopardy.
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How reasonable is it to assume that your life is in jeopardy ? Have you stats to show how many break ins result in murder. I suspect that most break ins are for robbery purposes not murder.
 
Lothian said:
How reasonable is it to assume that your life is in jeopardy ? Have you stats to show how many break ins result in murder. I suspect that most break ins are for robbery purposes not murder.
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So...are you saying that we are supposed to assume that if someone breaks into our home they aren't going to harm us? Yeah thats a great idea.
 
Lothian said:
How reasonable is it to assume that your life is in jeopardy ? Have you stats to show how many break ins result in murder. I suspect that most break ins are for robbery purposes not murder.
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Fuelair said that he'd kill someone after his mobile phone, so I don't think the motive of the crime is important to those who embrace their weaponry.

I'd sooner have someone steal every possession I own than kill them.
 
Quad4_72 said:
That is DEFINITELY not representative of the United States as a whole. My guess would be that the incident you are refering to happened in a small rural town. Any moderately sized city and there would have been much harsher consequences.
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And it would be fair to impose those much harsher consequences?
 
volatile said:
50 of our 750 murders were caused by guns. That's a plain fact. What's your point?

You were trying to claim that guns would have prevented some of those murders. Unless guns would have prevented more than 50, the gun control lobby is ahead.
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Actually, unless the number of murders caused by firearms goes up, a reduction in total murders by any value would be a positive effect.
Now, if the number of murders caused by firearms goes up, but the total number of murders goes down, it becomes a debatable issues as to the effectiveness.
If the number of firearm murders and total murders go up linearly, it is arguably, but not necessarily definitive, that it has a negative effect.
If the number of firearm murders become a greater percentage, and the total number of murders remains constant, or goes up, it is pretty definitive.
 
volatile said:
Shoot first, ask questions later then, huh?
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If someone breaks into my house, I will first proceed with verbal commands.

"Stop! Who are you?!"

"Freeze! Tell me what the hell you are doin in my house or I am going to shoot!"

If any aggression is made towards me, Say bye bye robber.
 
Quad4_72 said:
If someone breaks into my house, I will first proceed with verbal commands.

"Stop! Who are you?!"

"Freeze! Tell me what the hell you are doin in my house or I am going to shoot!"

If any aggression is made towards me, Say bye bye robber.
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Unless he shoots you first, of course.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Of course. The second I see a gun though I won't hesitate to fire.
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Unless he shoots you first.

In the UK, burglars don't carry guns.

Now, I concede that I am more likely to be burgled in the first place, but I have speculated that one reason that the burglary rate in the UK is high and the murder rate is low compared to the US, where the opposite is true, is that burglaries in the US more often end in murder.

I am speculating, though. Does anyone more knowledgeable about crime stats than I know whether a home-owner shot dead during a burglary goes down as a murder only, or as a murder and a burglary?

Fact remains, Quad - In the case of burglary in your house compared to a burglary in mine, you are more likely to be shot at. Do guns make you safer?
 
Quad4_72 said:
You bet it would be fair. Any idiot possessing their gun while they are drunk deserves jail time.
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But this was a law-abiding citizen. Up until he wasn't, of course.

Do you admit that law-abiding citizens can commit crimes with a gun?
 
volatile said:
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Fact remains, Quad - In the case of burglary in your house compared to a burglary in mine, you are more likely to be shot at. Do guns make you safer?
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The thing is, volatile, your question is overly simplistic. The risk to Quad, in this particular scenario as described, does not come from whether or not Quad has legal access to a firearm, but whether or not the burglar has (il)legal access to a firearm.
 
volatile said:
Fact remains, Quad - In the case of burglary in your house compared to a burglary in mine, you are more likely to be shot at. Do guns make you safer?
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If I have a gun, yes it makes me safer. What do you propose? Taking away everyones guns in the US? That is something that is never going to happen. Lets be real about that. Criminals are always going to be able to get ahold of guns no matter how illegal guns ever became. Fact remains right now that a criminal can easily get a gun off the streets.

Why would a criminal go about getting a gun legally that can be traced back to their name? The problem is guns in the hands of bad people. I should not be punished for a criminal's act.
 
CFLarsen said:
But this was a law-abiding citizen. Up until he wasn't, of course.

Do you admit that law-abiding citizens can commit crimes with a gun?
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In the US, it is illegal to have a firearm on your person if you are intoxicated. Therefore, the person in question is, by definition, not law-abiding.
 
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