Gun Control is ridiculous

Thanz said:
You know what really underlies your post? Fear. Fear that sometime, somewhere, you will need to protect yourself and you won't have a gun to do it.

The real is question is, why? Why are you so afraid? I have never been in a situation where I have thought "I wish I had a gun." I have never felt unsafe in my home. I don't feel unsafe outside of my home. I am curious as to why you do - do you live in a bad neighbourhood? Have you previously been a victim of crime? Or is it just a sort of general unwariness (or is it a more severe paranoia?)
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You make some good points Thanz. Many times I've felt the need for a gun but didn't have one. It wasn't so much a safety issue. Sometimes when driving other drivers really bug me. Other times when I've been drinking and the TV pisses me off, I really could use a gun ....

Charlie (chooses not to be armed) Monoxide

PS Not an anti-gun rant. More of a pro-sanity one.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Why yes, that is indeed a possibility. I am in the Army and I have been trained to be prepared for any situation. There is a possibility that a situation could come up where I would need a gun to protect myself.
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But how likely is that possibility? And does it warrant the possession of a firearm, that has risks all its own?

In truth, I am less worried about someone with military training in firearms - I have to assume that you know what you are doing. What worries me is some fearful homeowner who knows nothing more than which end is the dangerous end.

You have never been in that situation. Awesome. That is what we all hope for. Are you now impying that it is not possible? Let me ask you this. If me and you were walking down the street and a couple of people decided to attack us, would you be happy that I had a gun on me? I would hope that you would, because I will be damned if I am going to be left undefended.
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And I'll be damned if I am going to let that remote possibility rule my life.

You know the shooting at the mall in Utah recently? I used to live 15 min from that mall. I used to go there often. Don't assume that crime can't happen to you. Just because it has not happened in the past does not mean that it is not a possibility. I personally know of 5 people just off the top of my head who live around me that have gotten their houses broken into. There was a shooting a block away from me. Why be a victim when you can actively defend yourself?
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Excuse me if this sounds flippant, but it sounds like you have been in some bad neighbourhoods. I think it is safe to say that your experience is quite different from mine.
 
Orangutan said:
But our society says that guns shouldn't be taken away from the stupid owners either, until there are actions resulting in their stupidity.
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Exactly. And I'm sure the people who allowed children to get ahold of their guns thought they were responsible gun owners BEFORE another child died.

There was a very sad case here in NY last year, a young boy found his father's gun and shot himself to death. His father was a police officer.
 
Thanz said:
I am not implying that at all - I am just trying to get to the basis for his fear. If you feel safe, why do you still think you need a gun?
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I guess it's the Boy Scout brainwashing I received, "Be Prepared".

While you might feel comfortable relying on the police to protect you, I realize that no amount of police protection will be anywhere near 100% effective.

While you think alarm systems and lock will keep you safe, I realize that no security system is foolproof.

While I might live in what I consider a "safe" neighborhood, that doesn't exclude the possibility that tonight or any other night in the future some asshat might attempt to break into my home and harm my family. It happens, there are a lot of dangerous people out there, no neighborhood is immune.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Exactly. And I'm sure the people who allowed children to get ahold of their guns thought they were responsible gun owners BEFORE another child died.

There was a very sad case here in NY last year, a young boy found his father's gun and shot himself to death. His father was a police officer.
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We could use the same emotional appeal to ban anything. Cars, Buckets, knives, household cleaners, medication, swimming pools, just to start the endless list.
 
Skibum said:
We could use the same emotional appeal to ban anything. Cars, Buckets, knives, household cleaners, medication, swimming pools, just to start the endless list.
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Why do you want a gun in your house? (If that is the case)
 
Skibum said:
We could use the same emotional appeal to ban anything. Cars, Buckets, knives, household cleaners, medication, swimming pools, just to start the endless list.
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While I am closer to your position than I am to Alt +F4's or CFLarsen's, I think it only fair to point out that there are significant weaknesses in this comparison. As I am sure CFLarsen will point out soon, the items you list have primary purposes beyond killing while firearms have only one primary purpose which they are indeed fulfilling when someone is killed in an accident.

That's not a completely reasonable objection to the comparison, but it is not completely unreasonable, either, so you need to think it through.

As CFLarsen has already begun to do, at some point those who want to continue arguing in favor of firearms ownership need to address the line of diminishing value.

Are 802 accidental deaths acceptable? If so, then what number is no longer acceptable?

Perhaps we need to be more utilitarian and create a function-to-failure ratio that is acceptable for all things.

300 billion swimming pool hours every year versus 300 drownings. 1 in a billion. Is that okay? I think so, but I'm making the numbers up.

15 million firearms discharges every year versus 802 accidental shooting deaths. Is that okay? I think so, but I'm making these numbers up, too.

Figure out your values and then your metrics. Otherwise we end up with this:

270,000 gun control posts versus 0 unchanged minds. Is it worth it?
 
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Thanz said:
But how likely is that possibility? And does it warrant the possession of a firearm, that has risks all its own?
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Of course it depends upon where you live for the likeliness of the possibility. But even though something is unlikely, there is nothing wrong with being prepared. Let me ask you one simple question. If someone broke into your home, armed, would you be happy that you had a gun? This CAN happen. It has happened thousands of times in homes that are in rich suburban areas where people think that they are nice and safe. Their guard is down. If I were a robber, suburban homes would be the perfect target. Their guard is completely left down because crime has never happened in their area.

In truth, I am less worried about someone with military training in firearms - I have to assume that you know what you are doing. What worries me is some fearful homeowner who knows nothing more than which end is the dangerous end.
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Yes, I have had military training with firearms and I know what Im doing. But why should I be the only one with such training? There is no reason that civilians should not be able to receive such training. Not necessarily military, but SOMETHING. Yes there are courses that they can take, but what if good, quality courses were made mandatory? I can almost guarantee you that accidents in homes would go way down. As of now, people just go into gun stores, by their gun and get no training with it. Training is essential, and a much more plausible solution than trying to ban guns altogether.

And I'll be damned if I am going to let that remote possibility rule my life.
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Good. Don't let it rule your life. I don't let the possibility rule mine. I just have a gun on me in case the situation may arise.

Excuse me if this sounds flippant, but it sounds like you have been in some bad neighbourhoods. I think it is safe to say that your experience is quite different from mine.
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Yes, our situations are probably different. But still, its better to be prepared than to become a victim in my opinion. Some of my friends wonder why I carry a gun everywhere. They think it is a bit excessive. My response always is "Well if a couple of dudes tried to jump us with knives would you be happy I was armed?" Their response is always "Well yeah I guess." So there ya go.
 
Skibum said:
We could use the same emotional appeal to ban anything. Cars, Buckets, knives, household cleaners, medication, swimming pools, just to start the endless list.
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I agree. I could kill you with a pencil. :rolleyes: However, all the things you mention have other purposes, a gun has only one.

Then what is the answer? I find 20,00 deaths a year unacceptable.
 
 
Alt+F4 said:
I agree. I could kill you with a pencil. :rolleyes: However, all the things you mention have other purposes, a gun has only one.

Then what is the answer? I find 20,00 deaths a year unacceptable.
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Yes, 20,000 deaths is unacceptable. Do you really think that stricter laws are the answer to this? First of all, strict laws are not going to do anything for a criminal because they just simply do not abide by laws. (Just like posting a sign outside your business saying No guns. Yes, I am sure that the criminal is just going to turn right around when they see that sign:rolleyes:)

Second, guns will always be around. A criminal does not give a damn where he gets the gun or how, just as long as he gets it. Weapons seem to be readily available on the street, so rather than taking away law abiding citizens rights to defend themselves, why not educate them better so that mistakes are not made?

It seems to me that education would be a huge factor in cutting down on gun related deaths.
 
Garrette said:
So why did you bring it up? :)
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Anticipating the unavoidable. :)

Skibum said:
and many many more
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Oh, dear. I was hoping that perhaps this gun thread would be something else than anecdotes (which is why I urged people to read the old gun threads)....silly me.

I can also bring up crime stories where no guns were involved - and no people were shot.

Now, what? You having a gun clearly endangers my safety. Why do you think you are entitled to protect yourself at my expense?

Your "right" to a gun is an entirely different issue than your "right" to self-defense against criminals. Don't even think about bringing up the 2nd Amendment, because that doesn't say anything about criminals.

We've been there, so many times. Unless you can come up with something we haven't argued to death, don't even bother.
 
Quad4_72 said:
It seems to me that education would be a huge factor in cutting down on gun related deaths.
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"Seems", perhaps. Do you have anything else than opinion? E.g., evidence?

How many gun related deaths are cut down due to "education"?
 
Alt+F4 said:
I agree. I could kill you with a pencil. :rolleyes: However, all the things you mention have other purposes, a gun has only one.

Then what is the answer? I find 20,00 deaths a year unacceptable.
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What does intended purpose have to do with anything. If 20,000 deaths is unacceptable, why are 45,000 auto deaths per year any different?

A death is a death.
 
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