Gun control doesn't reduce crime (report)

[Zep]

Don't start him up, Quasi! That sort of bleeding-heart liberal Euro furriner talk just makes him mad as hell!

 

[Ed]

Gee, you sure are prickly today, Ed.

I'm certainly not trying to be snide or irrelevant. Nor do I believe that every USAian is a gun-totin' bible-thumpin' sexually-repressed pickup-drivin' thickwit hillbilly waving a copy of the constitution like an access-all-areas pass. (Incidentally, your constitution is a fine document - I'm one of those who believe we are in need of something similar here to replace our tired old contract with a tiny country on the other side of the world.)

Before I finish reading your note, let me say I am very sorry if you thought that it was directed to you or your post. I was thinking that you actually provided an opening for the type of discussion that might be interested. I was going to say that but ran out of steam.

I was sort of ruminating about the topic, not really talking to anyone in particular. It happens with age, that and polyuria, speaking of which, gotta go.....

 

[Ed]

What will it take before someone understands American culture? I've lived in the US, do you think that I understand American culture?

No, not really. You appear to understand it well enough to be judgemental. You also appear to really dislike us.


What does that say about Americans?

Nothing. It simply is. It is as unfair to suggest that this facet of our culture identifies us as beheadings charaterize muslims. But you see, that is a distinction that is lost on europeans.

 

[Tmy]

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42167


It found that nearly 80 percent of those (Federal inmates) interviewed got their guns from friends or family members, or on the street through illegal purchases.

AND WHERE DID THE FAMILY MEMBERS GET THEM???? What states are we talking about??? What are their gun laws??

I read this as a reason for gun control. If the guns are registered you can then trace them back to the owner, and then hold them responsible for their negligent ownership. Chances are Im not going to give my gun to my criminal cousin if I know that Ill be on the hook should he use it in a crime.

Sort of like adults buying alcohol for kids. A big deterrent to that is people getting in trouble should somthing happen to the drunken teens.

 

[CFLarsen]

No, not really. You appear to understand it well enough to be judgemental. You also appear to really dislike us.

On the contrary, I love America and especially the Americans. But I don't walk around, drooling over their superiority, like far too many of them do themselves.

It gets a little annoying, you know, so it's good to bring you guys down a notch or two from time to time. Sadly, too many see any kind of criticism as an all-out attack on All-Things-American.

Instead of reacting in a knee-jerk manner, whenever something bad about America comes up, perhaps you guys should think it over for a second? Perhaps we could be right, even though we are mere Euro-trash?

Nothing. It simply is. It is as unfair to suggest that this facet of our culture identifies us as beheadings charaterize muslims. But you see, that is a distinction that is lost on europeans.

Not at all. We don't think "Gun Nuts" when we think "Americans", but it is one of the aspects that we are concerned about.

 

[shanek]

What will it take before someone understands American culture? I've lived in the US, do you think that I understand American culture?

Obviously not, if you think there is one homogeneous thing called "American culture." I take tango lessens from an Argentine at an Irish pub that serves Italian food, so even having lived here all my life I don't know what this "American culture" thing is. And it all varies depending on which part of the country you go to. Heck, I can even show you a change in culture just by going 50 miles away.

 

[shanek]

So do we. Next?

Then you should be able to answer this question: where do rights come from?

 

[shanek]

I am not sure you should make any "we" statements about the US. I really see no point in owning a gun, and I know a lot of people who also feel that way.

Neither do I, but I support the right of others to do so. I see no point in doing drugs (or drinking alcohol or smoking), but I support the right of others to do so. I see no point in religion, but I support the right of others to believe and worship as they see fit. That's what freedom is all about.

Just for the record, if you have no criminal record, I see no reason why you should not be able to own a gun if you want, however you should take great responsibility for its proper use.

This is what people need to understand: rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Having the right to do something means being responsible for the consequences, because it was your decision to act that way. On the other hand, if someone is forcing you, if you have no choice, how can you possibly be responsible?

If you want people to be responsible, the only way to do so is to set them free.

 

[shanek]

On the contrary, I love America and especially the Americans. But I don't walk around, drooling over their superiority, like far too many of them do themselves.

Which Americans on this forum do that?

It gets a little annoying, you know, so it's good to bring you guys down a notch or two from time to time. Sadly, too many see any kind of criticism as an all-out attack on All-Things-American.

Oh, yes, and you handle criticisms of Denmark oh-so-rationally...

Not at all. We don't think "Gun Nuts" when we think "Americans", but it is one of the aspects that we are concerned about.

Why? We aren't concerned about the lack of guns in Denmark. Because we just don't live there.

 

[a_unique_person]

One day I would like to have a rational discussion about this topic sans snide and irrelivant observations about how things are really for the best in this best of all possible countrys (fill in name of your country here).

Unfortunately, whenever this topic comes up outsiders slip into their moral superiority suit and conversation goes downhill. We, to be fair, wave around our bill of rights and point out that the rest of the world lives on the edge of totalitarianism, if they are not there already. We point out how we saved the entire world from Hitler and bankrupted the commies. On the way we are called religious nuts and sexually repressed.

And so it goes. I have been having these discussions for 35 years or so and I have yet to hear anything new on this board except for some highly creative vituperation. It has mostly been stupid though.

The problem with ferriners is that they simply do not understand American culture and, I fear, are far to snobbish to admit there is one let alone learn about it. We, on the other hand, cannot apprehend a culture without firearms as a background to life.

Anytime someone wants to actually discuss, let me know.

If I hear one more comment on how the US saved the world from Hitler, I am going to scream.

It's like saying the guy who got the touchdown won the game. Without the rest of the team, he would have scored about 0.

 

[a_unique_person]

Then you should be able to answer this question: where do rights come from?

Benjamin Franklin's ass?

 

[CFLarsen]

Obviously not, if you think there is one homogeneous thing called "American culture." I take tango lessens

But not spelling ones.

from an Argentine at an Irish pub that serves Italian food, so even having lived here all my life I don't know what this "American culture" thing is. And it all varies depending on which part of the country you go to. Heck, I can even show you a change in culture just by going 50 miles away.

How narrowminded. You obviously haven't discovered that American culture is a weird mix of all cultures of the world.

But if you say that Americans have no culture, fine with me....

 

[CFLarsen]

Then you should be able to answer this question: where do rights come from?

Ah, a question from someone who continuously dodge hard questions himself.

But no matter: Rights come from people themselves. They are neither endowed us by deities or are natural laws.

What was your stance on that again? Do rights come from God or can you show the equation for "Rights"?

I don't expect you to answer, of course, because you avoid the hard questions again and again. Perhaps time for a little list?

 

[Ed]

If I hear one more comment on how the US saved the world from Hitler, I am going to scream.

It's like saying the guy who got the touchdown won the game. Without the rest of the team, he would have scored about 0.

That was sarcasm. As you reread my post, moving your lips this time, you will see that I exaggerated the response of all parties.

 

[CFLarsen]

Which Americans on this forum do that?

What, another question? Gee, I wonder if you are going to answer those who wait for you in so many other threads...

You, among others.

Oh, yes, and you handle criticisms of Denmark oh-so-rationally...

Actually, yes, I'd like to think so. I "handle" criticisms of Denmark with facts and evidence, where you counter criticism of America, Libertarianism, and guns with insane hissy-fits, evasions, and wild (and untrue) accusations of lying.

Why? We aren't concerned about the lack of guns in Denmark. Because we just don't live there.

Thanks for proving my point about how some Americans feel superior to others.

 

[shanek]

But not spelling ones.

Yes, I'm dyslexic, and I also make typos.

How narrowminded. You obviously haven't discovered that American culture is a weird mix of all cultures of the world.

Uh, hello? I think I just made that very point!

You also missed the point that I can take you to two points not 50 miles from each other and show you a completely different culture.

 

[shanek]

But no matter: Rights come from people themselves. They are neither endowed us by deities or are natural laws.

"The people" as in individuals?

What was your stance on that again?

If you mean "the people" to refer to individuals, then it's exactly the same as yours.

[Another of Claus's oft-repeated strawmen deleted]

 

[CFLarsen]

"The people" as in individuals?

No, people. People, getting together and deciding what rights they have. Voting. Democracy. There is no God involved, nor a strange concept of natural laws.

If you mean "the people" to refer to individuals, then it's exactly the same as yours.

So, rights are not endowed by God? They are not natural laws?

[Another of Claus's oft-repeated strawmen deleted]

I find it very amusing that you keep calling your lack of ability to answer questions "strawmen" and "personal abuse". It is most revealing.

 

[shanek]

You, among others.

Where have I done this? Quotes, please.

Actually, yes, I'd like to think so.

Then explain your behavior in the thread where you cited the Danish Constitution and then jumped on everyone's cases for pointing out problems with it.

Thanks for proving my point about how some Americans feel superior to others.

How on Earth can a live-and-let-live philosophy possibily be considered "feeling superior"?

 

[shanek]

No, people. People, getting together and deciding what rights they have. Voting. Democracy.

So, then, if the people get together, and the 80% of the people who are white vote to enslave again the 20% of the people who are black, is that okay?