Grotesque stock valuations for companies.

[Suddenly]

What does that have to do with letting people keep their own money? I'm sure you could come up with lots of excuses to spend other people's money. We're always just one tax away from utopia, right?

"Letting people keep their own money" is a nonsense framing.

The issue is a government that actively enables what a reasonable person would call fraud and inequitable trade practices. Sure, on the surface it is "their money," but the process of accumulating great wealth involves so many starkly inequitable forces that making any sort of "it is unfair to take my money" framing is absolutely laughable.

It goes way beyond just straight Trump sleaze. We can go back to broadly applying the Federal Arbitration Act to consumers and the "tort reform" movement in general that in effect granted immunity to a whole bunch of corporate illegal behavior. We have health insurance companies routinely denying claims they know will be granted when a policy holder jumps through appeal hoops. This should result in indictmernts for felony fraud but in reality a party harmed by a bad faith act can't even sue.

A lack of proper SLAPP protection gives the wealthy a clear and simple mechanism, a frivolous defamation lawsuit, to silence anyone that threatens to expose them or for that matter says anything they don't like. Defending such a suit is beyond expensive.

There is no difference between a plutocracy and a kleptocracy.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm reminded of bathroom graffiti. "Life is like a ◊◊◊◊ sandwich. The less bread you have, the more ◊◊◊◊ you eat."

Money doesn't just buys things. It buys more money.

Someone with no disposable income is NEVER going to get ahead. Their money only buys things and not many of them. They will always be behind the 8 ball. They can work 60 hours a week and still die with nothing or almost nothing.

And someone with a little extra money will be able to buy more things and/or a little extra money.

More money equals more money, and more money equals even more money. And it does it in more ways than one. And the richer you are the less your money comes from actual work. ,

It also buys power. The ability to have things your way. The ability to tell others what to do. Power goes to the highest bidder. Laws and justice is for sale and if you have the money, you can tip it in your favor. And that has happened.

 

[The Atheist]

"Letting people keep their own money" is a nonsense framing.

Pro-Republican playbook, page 3.

ANY attempt to tax the wealthy more than the poors must be framed as Commies!!11@@1!

 

[dirtywick]

Trump explores federal government acquiring shares in AI companies

President Trump said he's exploring the federal government acquiring shares in AI companies, likening it to a "partnership with the American people."

www.usatoday.com

President Donald Trump said he's exploring having the federal government acquire shares in artificial intelligence companies, likening the concept to a "partnership with the American people."

Trump said he will meet with executives of the nation's largest AI companies as early as next week to discuss the government potentially owning equity stake in "pieces" of their firms.

us to explore public stake in major ai companies, which i liken to the concept of a bailout

 

[theprestige]

Pro-Republican playbook, page 3.

ANY attempt to tax the wealthy more than the poors must be framed as Commies!!11@@1!

We already tax the wealthy more than the poor.

 

[steenkh]

We already tax the wealthy more than the poor.

Really?
Surely, you are not talking percentages, which is the only amount that makes sense.

 

[theprestige]

Really?
Surely, you are not talking percentages, which is the only amount that makes sense.

Not only do we tax a percentage of both income and capital gains, but the percentage goes up the more you have.

Both percentages and raw dollar amounts place a disproportionate tax burden on the rich vs the poor.

I'm not saying this is communism and needs to be stopped. I'm saying your wrong to assume it's not happening, and you're wrong to assume people have a serious problem with it.

So when people say society is broken and we need to tax the rich even more to fix it, I want to know where all the money you already taxed from the rich went. Did you not even know about that tax money? Did you not even know that we already spend a disproportionate amount of rich people's money, per capita, on healthcare?

I'm not against progressive taxation. I am against scapegoating the rich for a failed system, and pretending that throwing even more money at a broken system will fix it.

You want to raise a new tax on the rich, to fix, and the US healthcare system? I want to see a plan. A plan that not only costs more, but that actually gives better value for the dollar. And I want to see the part of the plan that spells out clearly how this reform cannot be accomplished without raising a new tax.

As much as rich people annoy me, I'd still rather they get to keep their money, than be forced to turn it over to the same corrupt and incompetent people who can't even manage the money they have already set aside for the greater good.

 

[steenkh]

Not only do we tax a percentage of both income and capital gains, but the percentage goes up the more you have.

Both percentages and raw dollar amounts place a disproportionate tax burden on the rich vs the poor.

Progressive tax schemes are common, but equally common are tax evasion systems that deposit income into holdings where only small part is actually paid to the owner, causing the tax to be much less than the actual income. In Denmark we once had a politician who used to be a lawyer who specialised in reducing his rich clients' taxes to 0%, entirely legally.

 

[dirtywick]

there's already been multiple links in this thread regarding the amount of taxes the extremely rich actually paid and the various schemes they use to avoid paying them

 

[theprestige]

Progressive tax schemes are common, but equally common are tax evasion systems that deposit income into holdings where only small part is actually paid to the owner, causing the tax to be much less than the actual income. In Denmark we once had a politician who used to be a lawyer who specialised in reducing his rich clients' taxes to 0%, entirely legally.

Cool story. But the truth is that even with such nonsense, the top 10% pay most of the taxes, both by percentage and raw dollar amounts.

 

[acbytesla]

We already tax the wealthy more than the poor.

No we dont. And if we do, it is just barely. The poor and the middle class pay a much higher percentage of their income in sales, gas, property and FICA taxes as well as through various fees targeted at them.

 

[acbytesla]

Cool story. But the truth is that even with such nonsense, the top 10% pay most of the taxes, both by percentage and raw dollar amounts.

No they ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ don't. Warren Buffet did a side by side comparison between what he paid in taxes and what his secretary paid. His secretary paid a much greater percentage of her income.

 

[theprestige]

No we dont. And if we do, it is just barely. The poor and the middle class pay a much higher percentage of their income in sales, gas, property and FICA taxes as well as through various fees targeted at them.

You might want to check those numbers. Yes, the poor are stuck with a number of regressive taxes, but even that isn't enough to exceed the sheer wealth coming in from income and capital gains taxes.

And then there's the taxpayer-funded services to help poor people buy groceries, gasoline, etc. It's one of the takes of all time, to say that poor people pay sales tax, when their groceries are paid for by taxpayers via EBT.

And that's before we even get to things like permits and license fees, which act as a tax on any kind of productivity the middle class has to offer.

 

[steenkh]

Cool story. But the truth is that even with such nonsense, the top 10% pay most of the taxes, both by percentage and raw dollar amounts.

Source? When I searched for an answer to this question, I found Who Pays? (Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy:

The vast majority of state and local tax systems are regressive, asking less of the wealthy than of low- and middle-income families. These systems worsen income inequality by making incomes more unequal after collecting state and local taxes.

Particularly enlightening was this graph that shows which group pays the lowest tax (red is the richest 1%):

 

[The Atheist]

Goddamn, those facts are annoying things.

 

[theprestige]

Source? When I searched for an answer to this question, I found Who Pays? (Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy:

Particularly enlightening was this graph that shows which group pays the lowest tax (red is the richest 1%):

Goddamn, those facts are annoying things.

It's the capital gains vs income canard all over again.

Now look at total income tax revenue for the year. Look at which income ranges contribute the most, in terms of percentage of income, and in terms of raw dollars.

 

[acbytesla]

It's the capital gains vs income canard all over again.

Now look at total income tax revenue for the year. Look at which income ranges contribute the most, in terms of percentage of income, and in terms of raw dollars.

Capital gains is income.

 

[theprestige]

Capital gains is income.

The two revenue streams are dealt with differently in the tax code. The income from profits on capital investment is taxed differently from the revenue from payroll income.

But you already knew this. Why act ignorant?

 

[Ziggurat]

No they ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ don't. Warren Buffet did a side by side comparison between what he paid in taxes and what his secretary paid. His secretary paid a much greater percentage of her income.

His secretary is not poor. The claim was the rich paid less than the poor, not less than the upper middle class. And don't confuse marginal rates with total rates either.

 

[acbytesla]

The two revenue streams are dealt with differently in the tax code. The income from profits on capital investment is taxed differently from the revenue from payroll income.

But you already knew this. Why act ignorant?

I have sold multiple houses and capital gains was taxed at the same rate as other income. But it's been a few years, so maybe the tax code has changed.