Greece plans referendum on austerity measures

A government's role is to govern not to cowardly call for a referendum when faced with unpalatable, but obviously necessary, decisions.
 
Muldur said:
I realize that. The point I was responding to was the observation that it would be hard to push a tax increase through in their current environment.

I made the observation in reply that it would be doubly difficult if they had some sort of psuedo-populist movement actively campaigning against said proposal a la the Tea Party here.

We need look no further than recent US history to see what kind of damage such a party can do if it even gets a significant minority position of power.
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The Tea Partiers are at least consistent. They want tax cuts, but also a slashed state. The Greeks don't want taxes yet want a lot of social benefits (presumably paid for by Germany).

I think the idea of a popular referendum is excellent. Let the Greeks cast their die.
 
Archer17 said:
It's a virtual lock that they won't IMO.

I was surprised by Papandreou doing this at this late date. I'm not sure what's going on in his head. Does he really think the people are going to change their tune just because he put the ball in their court?
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I'm beginning to think he was expecting the Eurozone to shrug hugely, accept that Greece would default, let it happen and suffer the consequences. Then Pap. could blame it all on Merkel and Sarkozy and retain some shred of political credibility.

When the bail-out appeared Pap. still knew that Greece would still default later, but it would all now appear to be his fault (though, as we know, this die was cast years ago).

With this referendum it becomes the resonsibility of 'the people' either way. Maybe.

Such self-serving political brinkmanship would go totally against my previous opinion of Pap. as a decent and capable politician. But these are weird times.
 
In capitalism, when you fail, you fail.

The 'Creditors', you know, the ones who's job it is, who apparently have the education, experience and knowledge, not to mention the 'talent' to understand economic and financial matters, ought to know the consequences of supplying infinite credit and adding unsustainable debt to someone who cannot pay it back.

In short, like the 'opportunity' not the 'crisis' we had in 2008 with the banks, the Greeks should tell them to sing for it.

I like the fact the Greek PM has to go 'explain himself' to France and Germany. He's the democratically elected leader of a sovereign country bothering to ask his people about an issue that will affect everyone of their lives.

In the EU this is an outrage of course. As people in Ireland should know. Just have another referendum until desired result is reached.

There's no doubt that Greece has brought some of this on itself, but the prescription that's been forced on it is not for the good of Greece, quite the opposite, it's to keep the corpse of the EU alive. And to yet again bail out banks.
 
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WildCat said:
Unfortunately, a large segment of the Greek population thinks they can get out of this pain-free, and that simply is not going to happen in this universe.
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Wait a minute. Are you saying this isn't the universe where everything is made of fat-free, sugar-free milk chocolate?
 
It's all gotten a bit busy today......

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulias immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm.

Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198
 
If a referendum could get the people to stop rioting and striking, maybe it would be worth it. Rioting and striking just seems likely to make a bad situation even worse.
 
Well, I think the idea now is that there will be no referendum, which appears to have pleased the markets....if not all of the Greeks.
 
uk_dave said:
Well, I think the idea now is that there will be no referendum, which appears to have pleased the markets....if not all of the Greeks.
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Too bad. Let the Greeks choose, but also take the consequences of their choice.

I think the best for all in the longer run would be for Greece to leave the Eurozone, and devalue their currency like crazy to pay off their debt. The devalued currency would boost export and tourism, which could make it quite alright.
 
Puppycow said:
If a referendum could get the people to stop rioting and striking, maybe it would be worth it. Rioting and striking just seems likely to make a bad situation even worse.
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Oh I don't know - rioting means the police will be paid more which means they'll be able to spend more, trashing stores means more work for repairs or construction, all helps keep the money moving around! ;)
 
Greek PM George Papandreou is facing calls from senior members of his own party to resign, amid uncertainty about a eurozone bailout deal.

During an emergency cabinet meeting, four ministers including influential Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos urged Mr Papandreou to stand down and make way for a coalition government.

Earlier the BBC reported that the PM was preparing to resign.

But state TV reported that he had ruled this out during the meeting.

The opposition New Democracy party has said it will accept a coalition if Mr Papandreou agrees to stand down.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

....and the markets now head south.
 
excaza said:
The rest of the EU stops having to support their debt, and Greece isn't required to keep borrowing heavily and cooking their books in order to meet the EU requirements.
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Plus, at least plausibly and arguably, a devalued currency would increase the ability of the Greeks to export and make the climate attractive to multinationals who would otherwise look to China or India for new facilities. There's also tourism. Greece is gorgeous, and if it becomes a dirt-cheap destination, that will bring money in.

Apart from actual money, which is arguably somewhat fictitious anyway, Greece is in a pretty good position. It does rain there, and food grows. There are recent cultural memories of surviving against all odds with effort. There's a decent community spirit, much better than, say, the US. There's even a level of arrogance that should be helpful.
 
Interesting times.....

Greek PM George Papandreou has said he is ready to drop a proposed referendum on the country's eurozone bailout deal.

Mr Papandreou offered to hold talks with the opposition to seek consensus on the deal, adding that the referendum was never an end in itself.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

.....and the markets head north once again.
 
epepke said:
Plus, at least plausibly and arguably, a devalued currency would increase the ability of the Greeks to export and make the climate attractive to multinationals who would otherwise look to China or India for new facilities. There's also tourism. Greece is gorgeous, and if it becomes a dirt-cheap destination, that will bring money in.
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The problem is industry, or rather, the lack of it. Greece just isn't an industrial powerhouse.

epepke said:
Apart from actual money, which is arguably somewhat fictitious anyway, Greece is in a pretty good position. It does rain there, and food grows. There are recent cultural memories of surviving against all odds with effort. There's a decent community spirit, much better than, say, the US. There's even a level of arrogance that should be helpful.
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There's also a long-standing tradition of pervasive tax evasion, which they really, really need to address if they ever plan on getting their public finances in order.
 
The tax evasion must be horrific, just saw a news article that says there are more Porsches in Greece than there are people declaring an income of 50,000+ Euros.
 
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