It seems that anyone who is willing to convince itself of something, can actually do it. Even intelligent people. This is exactly how cults and sects operate.
Gravy's new document: "half-baked theory"
- Thread starter chipmunk stew
- Start date
It seems that anyone who is willing to convince itself of something, can actually do it. Even intelligent people. This is exactly how cults and sects operate.
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
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No. We are understanding how ludicrous your interpretation of the official story is, and how arrogant you are about being totally sure you are right while holding an obviously untenable position.
TS:
You were not being honest. An honest answer would be to take all the arguments, from Gravy's perspective, and summarize them. You interjected your own, baseless, evidenceless speculations in to the summary, to make his theories look silly. That is dishonest.
As well, you note, when I made the comment of Larry wanting to pull back, it wasnt in quotes. That is because "pull back" was my opinion, and that of many Debunkers, as to what Larry likely meant by "pull it" at that time. It certainly has as much evidence behind it as does the silly CT angle on it. And since you were suppose to be summarizing Gravy's theory, and he is a debunker, i would suggest that my take on it is likely more in keeping with his thoughts, than your suggestion.
TAM
You were not being honest. An honest answer would be to take all the arguments, from Gravy's perspective, and summarize them. You interjected your own, baseless, evidenceless speculations in to the summary, to make his theories look silly. That is dishonest.
As well, you note, when I made the comment of Larry wanting to pull back, it wasnt in quotes. That is because "pull back" was my opinion, and that of many Debunkers, as to what Larry likely meant by "pull it" at that time. It certainly has as much evidence behind it as does the silly CT angle on it. And since you were suppose to be summarizing Gravy's theory, and he is a debunker, i would suggest that my take on it is likely more in keeping with his thoughts, than your suggestion.
TAM
A:The widely held view of the majority of the public, and most here on this forum:
On 9/11/01, 19 Hijackers, through the logistical and financial help of Al-Qaeda, carried out a terrorist attack on the mainland United States. It involved the hijacking of 4 commercial airliners, and then the flying of said airliners into the hijackers preselected targets, with the exception of one of the flights, UA93, which had its plans thwarted by the passengers onboard.
The targets that were struck were, the WTCs 1 & 2, as well as the Pentagon.
Subsequent to the attacks on the WTCs, the buildings themselves collapsed, some 50-70 minutes after the intitial impacts, due to a combination of (1) severing of exterior and interior weight bearing columns by the planes, (2) removal of much of the fireproofing from the steel, and (3) superheated fires, initiated by the jet fuel, maintained and superheated through the burning of building contents such as carpets, plastics, furniture, etc... These three factors led to (1) an increase weight load placed upon the remaining intact columns and support structures, and (2) weakening of those columns and other support structures via the intense heat produced by the fires. This initiated a collapse of the floors at the sites of impact. Once this collapse was initiated, the collapse of the entire building occured, with very little resistance offered from the structure below the impact floors, and a resulting NEAR free fall time of collapse.
At all the sites, the dead, including hijackers have been identified via DNA or process of elimination. Debris from the airplanes has been found and catalogued in all 4 crash sites.
------
The above theory has been agreed upon by hundreds of qualified engineers and scientists.
B:The theory believed by at most a 50,000-100,000 people, calling themselves "truthers", is as follows:
On 9/11/2001, after months of planting explosives secretively in the WTC 1, 2, and 7, the USG had 4 commerical airliners, with passengers on board, detoured to a secret location. At that point, 4 "drone" aircraft, similar in shape and size to the airliners, were sent up, and these airliners then proceeded to crash into WTC1,2 and the Pentagon (maybe, see below). The 4th Airliner, for some unknown reason was just crashed into an abandoned field in Shanksville, causing no loss of life.
The passengers from the 4 original flights were then either (a) all put into a witness protection plan, where none of them, not one, ever disobeyed and told their families the truth, or (b) were all killed by the USG at some other location.
Back at the attack sites, the buildings that were struck by the drones, but were previously rigged in secret over months of work, were then detonated into collapse by a Controlled Demolition, from the top down, a style of demolition never used before, assisted, at least in part, by thermite, a chemical never previously used in controlled demolition.
7 hours later, because he didn't like the papers that were stored inside, Larry Silverstein had WTC 7 brought down by Controlled Demolition, right under the noses of the fire department, and apparently with their assistance.
At the Pentagon a missile was used to cause the attack, either sent from some unknown locale, or via a "fly over" aircraft (possibly one of the drone aircrafts other truthers have suggested).
-----
The above theory has been agreed upon only by the "truthers" with no experts agreeing with them. There is no physical evidence to prove the above theory, and no witnesses testify to the use of thermite. No witnesses have testified to seeing any explosives used. I apologize if the second theory seems pasted together and incoherent, but the "truthers" have never been able to agree on anything close to a unified theory of what they feel happened on 9/11.
TAM
On 9/11/01, 19 Hijackers, through the logistical and financial help of Al-Qaeda, carried out a terrorist attack on the mainland United States. It involved the hijacking of 4 commercial airliners, and then the flying of said airliners into the hijackers preselected targets, with the exception of one of the flights, UA93, which had its plans thwarted by the passengers onboard.
The targets that were struck were, the WTCs 1 & 2, as well as the Pentagon.
Subsequent to the attacks on the WTCs, the buildings themselves collapsed, some 50-70 minutes after the intitial impacts, due to a combination of (1) severing of exterior and interior weight bearing columns by the planes, (2) removal of much of the fireproofing from the steel, and (3) superheated fires, initiated by the jet fuel, maintained and superheated through the burning of building contents such as carpets, plastics, furniture, etc... These three factors led to (1) an increase weight load placed upon the remaining intact columns and support structures, and (2) weakening of those columns and other support structures via the intense heat produced by the fires. This initiated a collapse of the floors at the sites of impact. Once this collapse was initiated, the collapse of the entire building occured, with very little resistance offered from the structure below the impact floors, and a resulting NEAR free fall time of collapse.
At all the sites, the dead, including hijackers have been identified via DNA or process of elimination. Debris from the airplanes has been found and catalogued in all 4 crash sites.
------
The above theory has been agreed upon by hundreds of qualified engineers and scientists.
B:The theory believed by at most a 50,000-100,000 people, calling themselves "truthers", is as follows:
On 9/11/2001, after months of planting explosives secretively in the WTC 1, 2, and 7, the USG had 4 commerical airliners, with passengers on board, detoured to a secret location. At that point, 4 "drone" aircraft, similar in shape and size to the airliners, were sent up, and these airliners then proceeded to crash into WTC1,2 and the Pentagon (maybe, see below). The 4th Airliner, for some unknown reason was just crashed into an abandoned field in Shanksville, causing no loss of life.
The passengers from the 4 original flights were then either (a) all put into a witness protection plan, where none of them, not one, ever disobeyed and told their families the truth, or (b) were all killed by the USG at some other location.
Back at the attack sites, the buildings that were struck by the drones, but were previously rigged in secret over months of work, were then detonated into collapse by a Controlled Demolition, from the top down, a style of demolition never used before, assisted, at least in part, by thermite, a chemical never previously used in controlled demolition.
7 hours later, because he didn't like the papers that were stored inside, Larry Silverstein had WTC 7 brought down by Controlled Demolition, right under the noses of the fire department, and apparently with their assistance.
At the Pentagon a missile was used to cause the attack, either sent from some unknown locale, or via a "fly over" aircraft (possibly one of the drone aircrafts other truthers have suggested).
-----
The above theory has been agreed upon only by the "truthers" with no experts agreeing with them. There is no physical evidence to prove the above theory, and no witnesses testify to the use of thermite. No witnesses have testified to seeing any explosives used. I apologize if the second theory seems pasted together and incoherent, but the "truthers" have never been able to agree on anything close to a unified theory of what they feel happened on 9/11.
TAM
Sure it could! He might, for instance, challenge us all to debate, and then wimp out completely...
oh, wait...
TruthSeeker1234
Banned
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OK. In the Gravy paper, we find:
Actually, based on his own tests AND the NIST documents, Jones reports not just sulfur, but also zinc, flourine (used in thermite) and, high concentrations of barium.
http://worldtradecentertruth.com/volume/200609/DrJonesTalksatISUPhysicsDepartment.pdf
For Gravy to ignore this is just yellow journalism at its worst. Shame on you Gravy.
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
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Had you read the paper that R. Mackey and I referenced several times, you would know that the levels of barium found in the neighboorhood dust samples referenced by Jones were completely normal.
Next.
If you're talking about Page 49 of that oft-repeated trainwreck, there's several errors:
1. The "high concentrations" of Barium, assuming Jones didn't screw up or lie, were found in WTC dust, not fused in slag or on any column
2. Barium concentrations are in the 100 to 1000 ppm (that's 0.1 to 0.01%) range. No error bars are cited. Thermate should show a very high (20%+) signal in a slag sample, and nothing like this has been found.
3. There are much higher concentrations of other random elements. Zinc for starters. Jones actually claims on the same page (49) "Zinc oxide would be a good choice to add to thermate." By his reasoning, there are a multitude of things that would be a "good choice." Why zinc? Nobody adds zinc! No point! Nobody adds TNT, either!
4. Jones has made no attempt to ascertain other potential sources of zinc and barium. Barium is a component of fluorescent lamps, among other things, and thus should have been present in large quantities in the WTC site. Zinc is commonly used in steel itself.
5. Even if we take him at face value, his "evidence" is purely circumstantial. But as we see above, we have no reason to take him at face value.
There's your "yellow journalism." And your double-standard.
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
I'd like to see R. Mackey argue the pro-leprechaun case. I bet he'd make it sound at least plausible. Just for fun. I know he's got FAR better things to do with his time, but I still think he could make a better case than TS1234.
boloboffin
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Skibum
Graduate Poster
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- Jun 26, 2006
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You're all wrong about Leprechauns. At the risk of being a bit ethnic, It was the sidhe. They're right evil buggers, especially that female one keening away on my roof.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidhe
Cause I know I had to go look it up, so have a gander...lol
TAM
Edit: and don't worry, i do not usually use Wiki as a reference, just this time...lol
Cause I know I had to go look it up, so have a gander...lol
TAM
Edit: and don't worry, i do not usually use Wiki as a reference, just this time...lol
Yup, you forget to leave out the saucer of milk (hell, why would sidhe need that, sheesh) or fall asleep on an innocuous chambered cairn and before you know it they demolish the Twin Towers.
They were probably in league with the Kelpies.
Feltzer can now reveal himself to be Finn MacChuill (spellings vary), awaken from his slumber together with the 7 armies of the CT Fianna in order to save the world once more.
A glen in a step, a hill in a stride and a whole league or more in a running leap........
<Well you'd never guess I was Gaelic, eh?>
They were probably in league with the Kelpies.
Feltzer can now reveal himself to be Finn MacChuill (spellings vary), awaken from his slumber together with the 7 armies of the CT Fianna in order to save the world once more.
A glen in a step, a hill in a stride and a whole league or more in a running leap........
<Well you'd never guess I was Gaelic, eh?>
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