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Gravy at Ground Zero

gumboot said:
They're CTers. Plain and simple. They think the government are responsible for the death of their loved ones, and they are out to take scalps. It is a fairly common reaction to such a situation, and not unique to 9/11. People aren't interested in blaming the people responsible, they are interested in blaming someone they can actually get revenge on. The government is always the easiest target because it's always involved in some way, and it can't defend itself.

-Gumboot
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Well, i have to agree with them that the government didn´t
reacted the way they should have after the attacks. To me
it didn´t look like they were interested to investigate but rather
to use the situation for their goals.

Also things like the conversations between Bush and the Comission
behind closed doors and not under oath. I highly guess that i would
be upset about such a lacking courage of my leaders.
 
Oliver said:
Well, i have to agree with them that the government didn´t
reacted the way they should have after the attacks. To me
it didn´t look like they were interested to investigate but rather
to use the situation for their goals.
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And what do you feel about their "unquestionable fact" that NORAD was stood down on 9/11?

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
And what do you feel about their "unquestionable fact" that NORAD was stood down on 9/11?

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

I think it´s the same way of tacticts the Troofers
use to reach their goals: awaking public interest,
no matter of right or false "facts".

But personally the whole issue raised a lot of
questions in me, too - after i only learned what
german media published about it.

From this point of view they are achieving their
goals. No wonder that LTW bans people who
speak the truth...
 
gumboot said:
In that case they should probably have a look at the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

-Gumboot
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The story about the "boy who cried wolf" is about
seeking responsible people where no are. In my opinion
the governments behavior after the attacks was lazy
and in a way that looks suspicious like they indeed had
something to hide. No matter because of involvement
or incompetence - it looked like "let´s cover the incident".
 
Oliver said:
The story about the "boy who cried wolf" is about
seeking responsible people where no are.
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The lesson from "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is if you lie people won't believe you even if you tell the truth. When people with real concerns use lies to gain attention, they are crying wolf. All they ensure is when they present their real concerns everyone will dismiss them as more nonsense.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
The lesson from "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is if you lie people won't believe you even if you tell the truth. When people with real concerns use lies to gain attention, they are crying wolf. All they ensure is when they present their real concerns everyone will dismiss them as more nonsense.

-Gumboot
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I agree with your statement - but with their rasing
questions in public they achieve their goal to awake
peoples interest - and this is the way the whole
truthmovement does it.

If the government did everything to investigate
the political side, the truthmovement wouldn´t
exist. Therefore i blame the government for this
discussion, too.
 
I would like to see Gravy´s comment about it:
Did they a good job to avoid all these questions
or was the Gov´s behavior the reason for the
whole 9/11 issue?
 
Crungy said:
Didn't you bother reading The Reader article that you provided a link to? :confused:
The Chicago Tribune had an article about him in today's paper.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...l=chi-news-hed
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It's inconclusive at this point.
Friends and family have tried to make sense of Ritscher's decision to die by self-immolation.

They have no doubt he whole-heartedly opposed the war in Iraq and believe it was a major factor in his decision.

But loved ones said they don't know if his mind and heart also were crowded with personal angst: despair, depression, mental illness.

They never knew him to be treated for those types of ailments. They never looked at him and thought he was irrational and needed medical help.
Click to expand...
 
I'm new here and just watched the Gravy. Great work my friend. It's good to see someone standing up for all of the innocent victims who lost thier lives at ground zero that day.
 
Porkpie Hat said:
I'm new here and just watched the Gravy. Great work my friend. It's good to see someone standing up for all of the innocent victims who lost thier lives at ground zero that day.
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Welcome, Porkpie! :w2:

Here's an even better example of his work:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8820426888499996890#26m19s

This is footage captured and promoted by the Loose Change guys. They're proud of this??? :con2:

And make sure you check out his and others' excellent written work in the Links section. You can get there through the link in my sig.
 
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LashL said:
I half hate to mention it but does anyone have the guy's name or his father's name in order to ascertain whether his assertion about his father dying at the site on Sept. 11/01 is legitimate? I'm not saying that it isn't legit, but the guy does appear to be rather, well, less than believable on the basis of the short video I've seen, and if his father died at the site, that should be a matter of public record.

And since this guy is (presumably) a beneficiary of his father's estate, that too should be a matter of public record.

Anyone know anything about this guy?
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You are not the only one who got suspicious when viewing this - Besides his kind of medicated face, what got my attention is his phrasing - "My father passed away here." Not he died here, not his life was snuffed out here, but "passed away" as if he died in his own bed, that just happened to be at WTC.

If he is a fake, he is trying to put himself at a higher plane of victim, one who can't be questioned.

Would love a name for this guy.
 
On the other side i could question Gravy´s
agenda about debunking them down there
on Ground Zero.

I doubt that he is able to deny the warnings
and foreknowledge before 9/11. So we are
not talking about absolute loonies here, even
if they´re speculating very much in order to
attract attention.
 
Free Thinkr said:
I have to disagree, because he's a liar like all the rest of them. He says he "just wants an investigation." He says he "just wants people to think for himself. Yet, there he is standing next to a huge banner that says "911 was an inside job," arguing the "911 bowel movement" (oops, truth movement) case. He's crapping on his father's memory by exonerating those who murdered his father, while simultaneously invoking his name every time the debate goes south. If anything, that's worse than the average truther.
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Reminds me of Cindy Sheehan. Use the death of the family member to push your political agenda.

Sick, just real sick.
 
MarkyX said:
Reminds me of Cindy Sheehan. Use the death of the family member to push your political agenda.

Sick, just real sick.
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I disagree bacause faking wmd-evidence, war-mongering and
invading a sovereign country not connected to the attacks but
implying this nevertheless that they were responsible for 3000
family members death is uncountable times more sick from many
views around the world, including me.
 
Oliver said:
On the other side i could question Gravy´s
agenda about debunking them down there
on Ground Zero.

I doubt that he is able to deny the warnings
and foreknowledge before 9/11. So we are
not talking about absolute loonies here, even
if they´re speculating very much in order to
attract attention.
Click to expand...
I've stated my reasons for going to Ground Zero. What do you think they are?
 
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I´m not sure about your agenda. It could be your
respect for the people who died there, the rescue
teams, firefighters and so on but it could also be
a political one.

I missed your statement about your reasons.
 
Oliver said:
I agree with your statement - but with their rasing
questions in public they achieve their goal to awake
peoples interest - and this is the way the whole
truthmovement does it.

If the government did everything to investigate
the political side, the truthmovement wouldn´t
exist. Therefore i blame the government for this
discussion, too.
Click to expand...
I disagree. There is no evidence to support the claims of the truth movement. Some prominent deniers, such as Korey Rowe, and some of the people I see at Ground Zero, say that nothing can change their minds that 9/11 was an inside job.

Conspiracy believers will always exist, no matter how much evidence proves them wrong. Did the US government not do enough to "prove" the moon landings?
 
Gravy said:
I disagree. There is no evidence to support the claims of the truth movement. Some prominent deniers, such as Korey Rowe, and some of the people I see at Ground Zero, say that nothing can change their mind that 9/11 was an inside job.

Conspiracy believers will always exist, no matter how much evidence proves them wrong. Did the US government not do enough to "prove" the moon landings?
Click to expand...

I see no connections from the moon-landing to 9/11.
How many people died because the moon landing and
how many wars were started because it?
[eta]How many laws changed?[/eta]

I consider these things after learning what this whole
discussion is about.
 
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