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Gratitude, Compulsion, Idiocy or Nobility?

I think, It is there in that link provided by Pixel.

No, you're simply wrong. Are all Jains as arrogant as you? I'm telling you what the source of surface radiation is where I live. I know it because I'm a scientist/engineer and because I've lived here for decades. I'm telling you about altitude-related exposure to galactic cosmic radiation because the science I specialize in is building objects that fly and go to space. You're literally trying to tell me that I don't know the profession I've practiced for nearly thirty years.

You're simply wrong. Deal with it.
 
Do you agree that there is no rational basis for considering the Mahavira story integral and infallible?

It is well documented, well applicable, well followed and with so many ancient structures. So nothing to doubt.
 
When anything exist in history and in today's scriptures & literature. It is a proof...

No, it isn't. Just because a story exists doesn't mean that story is true. You learned nothing from what bruto was trying to teach you.

...and awnser to your question.

Once more, I don't have a question; I have a challenge. You've suggested the story of Mahavira is indisputable. Yet you are unable to deal with the documented fact of its disputation among those who claim belief in it. I have no interest in studying your religion. I'm asking you to provide evidence for the claims you're making about it.
 
Those aren't personal remarks. You have no right to have your religion described in glowing terms. Your religion worships nature as if it were a god. If you don't how skeptics respond to that, don't talk to skeptics.



No. Once again you're just listing the teachings of your religion and trying to say they are somehow universal. They aren't.

I am just expressing true/natural religion. If it matches with this standard, I mentioned it. I can mention some parts of other religions which justify true/natural religion. Neither specific preaching nor its need.
 
It is well documented, well applicable, well followed and with so many ancient structures. So nothing to doubt.

No, it is an oral tradition that persisted for hundreds of years until it was partially lost by -- of all ironies -- a famine. I can point to many religions that are well-followed, such as Catholicism. There are more than a billion Catholics, which makes it a much more followed religion than yours. Should I accept the claims of the Catholics just because they say a lot of people believe them? "Ancient structures" is meaningless gibberish.

I have given you the reasons for doubt. You are unable to respond to them except to reassert your uncritical belief.
 
I am just expressing true/natural religion. If it matches with this standard, I mentioned it. I can mention some parts of other religions which justify true/natural religion. Neither specific preaching nor its need.

No. You're exactly preaching your religion and telling us it's the one true religion. You can't really bluff your way out of this. Jainism is sufficiently distinct that we know what you're talking about. You just want to bypass the step where you prove your religion is true, and establish your religion as some sort of universal moral imperative with no evidence, and with all the facts against you. We already determined that you are incompetent at the study of comparative religions.
 
No, you're simply wrong. Are all Jains as arrogant as you? I'm telling you what the source of surface radiation is where I live. I know it because I'm a scientist/engineer and because I've lived here for decades. I'm telling you about altitude-related exposure to galactic cosmic radiation because the science I specialize in is building objects that fly and go to space. You're literally trying to tell me that I don't know the profession I've practiced for nearly thirty years.

You're simply wrong. Deal with it.

Sorry, then may be, that link gave wrong information.:thumbsup: for your specific achievements & living under such environment for nation. If I shall need, I may request you to reply my questions on this topic. Btw, whether cosmic rays other than sun-rays really affect us--harm or benefit? Just curious due to mine astrological interests.
 
When I sat and thought, as he asked, then I could understand his intention. He simply tried, I should give one sided reply. But one sided reply can never be possible unless A&F. One can be modification/manifestation of Prime/basic other of some secondary/gross. Eg. Eating natural fruits vs cooked food, walking vs vehicles....so on.

However, I should thankful to Jay for putting this question intentionally but with unintentional outcome. As I gave Dict def. of Natural as "Inherent sense of wrong and right" but since we are evolved to cooking, it should had become natural to us, may be to secondary level but still we should have its inherent sense of right or wrong. If so, how it is not at par to natural at primary level? It made me to re-think about real meaning of "Inherent", if relate to natural at primary level or also to secondary level. ?

You and your "A&F. " This is, as it happens a distinct example. The question was not what is natural, what is good, what is right, or anything else. When a question is asked, you're not being asked to guess someone's inner feelings or goals or intentions. You're being asked a question. After you've answered the question, then is the time to discuss all else. Do one thing at a time.

The question before us is "Is a story to be considered true simply because it has been written?" This is a relevant question even if you believe the story you have been speaking of is true. The truth of the story itself is not the question being asked. You are being asked to think systematically about one thing only, a first step toward discussing other things.

So, if you are trying to discuss and not to sermonize, you think, for a moment, and think to yourself "Has anyone ever written an untruth?"

If the answer to that second question is "yes" as any person who thinks for a moment pretty much has to say, then the answer to the first question must ABSOLUTELY AND FINALLY, be "no." If this were not so, then you would be saying that truth and untruth are the same thing, because an untrue story is, by your very statement, true because it was written. That is absurd and wrong. If you do not understand this, stop a moment and think again about it until you do. If you still do not believe this, then post back. I will happily write an untruth about you, and you will, by your own statement, be obliged to accept that it is true!

Your posts here suggest that it is difficult for you to think about one thing at a time, and that can be a fatal error. Confusion and miscommunication occur inevitably if you cannot think of one thing at a time. If someone asks you if you believe black is green, the question is not answered with a discussion of nature and the universe. It does not matter whether you are right or wrong about nature and the universe. It's a bad answer, and symptomatic of a bad way of thinking about everything. If you can't give a simple answer to a simple question, it provides a ready license to any and all to presume you are incapable of saying anything well. If you should, by some chance, have some wise ideas to impart, you kill those ideas with careless expression and defective argument.
 
About root veggies being, as Kumar cloudily puts it, "discouraged" by jains: considering the Indian manner of fertilizing fields, I can sympathise with their fastidiousness.

Of course, jains explain their distaste for turd-grown potatoes w/ a religious rigamarole about infinite beings contained in roots. The pious always befuddle themselves with justifications like that. I guess it makes them feel smart.
 
No, it isn't. Just because a story exists doesn't mean that story is true. You learned nothing from what bruto was trying to teach you.



Once more, I don't have a question; I have a challenge. You've suggested the story of Mahavira is indisputable. Yet you are unable to deal with the documented fact of its disputation among those who claim belief in it. I have no interest in studying your religion. I'm asking you to provide evidence for the claims you're making about it.

That link. Then you can go on go on further deep. Or visit, Jain books/history stores, you shall get many. Even that place, where he was borned, got many achievements, got omniscience got Nirvana etc. still exists. You can check and visit. History is also a proof.
 
Btw, whether cosmic rays other than sun-rays really affect us--harm or benefit? Just curious due to mine astrological interests.

Ionizing radiation is carcinogenic. Ionizing radiation arrives from the sun and from the rest of the galaxy in the form of galactic cosmic radiation. People at higher altitudes receive more ionizing radiation than people at sea level. They have higher cancer rates as a result. These are not disputed facts.
 
That link.

I find nothing in that link that supports your claim. I am not interested in hearing the story told and retold. I am interested instead in whether you can support your claim that the story is indisputably true. As bruto says, you're being asked to support your claims, not sermonize incessantly.
 
No. You're exactly preaching your religion and telling us it's the one true religion. You can't really bluff your way out of this. Jainism is sufficiently distinct that we know what you're talking about. You just want to bypass the step where you prove your religion is true, and establish your religion as some sort of universal moral imperative with no evidence, and with all the facts against you. We already determined that you are incompetent at the study of comparative religions.

You tend to talk, just one sided/your sided thing without looking other sided presentations. Be equanimious pls. More, proof you can find on following quote:

Lord Mahavira
Name: Vardhamana

Birth: 599 B.C.

Birth Place: Kshatriyakund, Vaishali (in modern day Bihar)

Parents: Kingh Siddhartha and Queen Trishala

Spouse: Yashoda

Children: Priyadarshana (daughter)

Titles: Mahavira, Trirthankar, Jina

Age of Attaining Kevala Jnana: 42 years

Ideology: Jainism

Death: 527 B.C.

Age of attaining Moksha: 72 years
He preached that the real path leading to attainment of liberation from the cycle of Karma is through Samyak Darshana (right faith), Samyak Jnana (right knowledge) and Samyak Charitra (right character). These three basic principles were further elaborated by the Gandhar Gautama Swami into the twelve parts sacred scriptures known as the 12 Agamas. Sermons of Lord Mahaveera were compiled in the Agam Sutras by his disciples and were passed on to the common people through oral recitations.

These scriptures prescribe 5 basic vows that should be observed by monks and common disciples alike. These five basic vows are
http://www.culturalindia.net/indian-religions/mahavira.html
 
You tend to talk, just one sided/your sided thing without looking other sided presentations. Be equanimious pls. More, proof you can find on following quote:

The quote simply retells the story. Bruto and I are asking you for proof that the story is true beyond rational dispute, which is your claim. You seem strangely to believe that simply telling the story over and over again provides those proofs. Do not accuse Bruto or others of "one-sidedness." We're trying to hold you accountable, but you refuse to be.
 
Ionizing radiation is carcinogenic. Ionizing radiation arrives from the sun and from the rest of the galaxy in the form of galactic cosmic radiation. People at higher altitudes receive more ionizing radiation than people at sea level. They have higher cancer rates as a result. These are not disputed facts.

Thanks. You mean, these can also come to us from, Moon, Mar, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Satrun, Neptune & Uranus? I think, more nearer to us.
 
The quote simply retells the story. Bruto and I are asking you for proof that the story is true beyond rational dispute, which is your claim. You seem strangely to believe that simply telling the story over and over again provides those proofs. Do not accuse Bruto or others of "one-sidedness." We're trying to hold you accountable, but you refuse to be.

These Religious proofs are sufficient. Sorry, I do not have Time Machine.:o
 
Thanks. You mean, these can also come to us from, Moon, Mar, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Satrun, Neptune & Uranus? I think, more nearer to us.

Those bodies generally do not emit ionizing radiation. The gas giants do, but only in very small amounts compared to the sun. They are not closer to us than the Sun. None of this has to do with the ethics of eating animals. It has been amply proven that cancer can have natural causes, therefore your attempt to correlate cancer with bad diet is not successful. Move on.
 
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These Religious proofs are sufficient.

They are not proofs. They are claims. If you don't know the difference, you're on the wrong forum.

Sorry, I do not have Time Machine.:o

The reasons why you don't have infallible proof are irrelevant. The point is not to make the claim if you don't have the evidence. You don't have the evidence, so retract the claim.
 
You and your "A&F. " This is, as it happens a distinct example. The question was not what is natural, what is good, what is right, or anything else. When a question is asked, you're not being asked to guess someone's inner feelings or goals or intentions. You're being asked a question. After you've answered the question, then is the time to discuss all else. Do one thing at a time.

The question before us is "Is a story to be considered true simply because it has been written?" This is a relevant question even if you believe the story you have been speaking of is true. The truth of the story itself is not the question being asked. You are being asked to think systematically about one thing only, a first step toward discussing other things.

That was recorded within life time of Lord Mahavira by his diciple and continued. It is recorded scripture. Many ancient structures & Lord Mahavira's life activities place still physicallyv exist. These are more that sufficient Religious proofs. I do not have Time Machine. If these can be disputed that whole history or history of any religion can be disputed. Say like as if you say: Jesus was false story or made story without his real existence. Do you want to say it?

So, if you are trying to discuss and not to sermonize, you think, for a moment, and think to yourself "Has anyone ever written an untruth?"

If the answer to that second question is "yes" as any person who thinks for a moment pretty much has to say, then the answer to the first question must ABSOLUTELY AND FINALLY, be "no." If this were not so, then you would be saying that truth and untruth are the same thing, because an untrue story is, by your very statement, true because it was written. That is absurd and wrong. If you do not understand this, stop a moment and think again about it until you do. If you still do not believe this, then post back. I will happily write an untruth about you, and you will, by your own statement, be obliged to accept that it is true!

Your posts here suggest that it is difficult for you to think about one thing at a time, and that can be a fatal error. Confusion and miscommunication occur inevitably if you cannot think of one thing at a time. If someone asks you if you believe black is green, the question is not answered with a discussion of nature and the universe. It does not matter whether you are right or wrong about nature and the universe. It's a bad answer, and symptomatic of a bad way of thinking about everything. If you can't give a simple answer to a simple question, it provides a ready license to any and all to presume you are incapable of saying anything well. If you should, by some chance, have some wise ideas to impart, you kill those ideas with careless expression and defective argument.

Just refer to my GREAT reply to Jay question about how how I deal. I am neither a blind believer nor a blind skeptical and look mass existing & least harming things, though not yet A&F, but still with the positive hope of "can be possible" not like you with negative hope, "can not be possible". If I will jump into other topic "Proof of Immortality" where 1:20 disparity is going on since long back, though not supported, I can say something. But will not.
 
That was recorded within life time of Lord Mahavira by his diciple and continued.

Passed down by broken oral tradition that not even all Jains accept as indisputable.

Many ancient structures & Lord Mahavira's life activities place still physicallyv exist.

The same can be said for Judaism, Christian, and Islam. Just because an object exists doesn't mean the stories told about it are true.

These are more that sufficient Religious proofs.

They are not proofs. They are claims. If you don't know the difference between the two then you will have a very difficult time talking with rational people.

If these can be disputed that whole history or history of any religion can be disputed.

Yes, that's right.

Say like as if you say: Jesus was false story or made story without his real existence. Do you want to say it?

Yes, Christianity is mostly made up. The existence of Jesus is not a settled matter.

I am neither a blind believer...

Yes you are. You accept or reject fact based on whether it agrees with what you already believe. You admitted this. You proudly admitted this. That makes you as blind a believer as one can possibly be.

If I will jump into other topic "Proof of Immortality" where 1:20 disparity is going on since long back...

You don't know what's going on there either.
 

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