Graffiti problem? No Spray Paint For You!

[CBL4]

You are 100% correct about there being no one true solution, and that's the biggest obstacle to overcome. We're all looking for the one simple solution to this problem where none exists.

That is the problem with people. They want to wave a magic wand to solve any problem. Interesting problems are always complex and rarely can be solved simply. In politics, informed, well thought out answers always become targets for the media which want sound bite solutions.

PEOPLE CAN BE IDIOTS, and STUPID BEHAVIOR CANNOT ALWAYS BE LEGISLATED AWAY (there! I feel better now!).

I feel better too.

Please! There's no need for an apology. We're adults. We have opinions. There will be dissent. So what?!?! Is that an excuse to engage in name-calling or vituperative language? Well, since neither of us did, I say "no harm, no foul."

Thank you for the support but I always apologize when my remarks could be taken as too flippant or I misread something. I do this for two reason - I rarely mean to cause offense but do so unintentionally all to often. Second, apologies get things back on the meat of the issue.

There are several people on this forum who have excellent ideas but express them in such an inflamatory way that it negate the content. I did this on another forum and I regretted it. Now I try to be as polite as I can and still make my points.

CBL

 

[Art Vandelay]

Tony

That doesn't really address the question. This speaks nothing of the fundamentals of graffiti, instead, it speaks of gang culture. Gangs use graffiti yes, but so what? The Nazi's used graphic design, that doesn't mean graphic design is fundamentally wrong.

See, I thought we were discussing the practical effects and implications of graffiti in the real world, not the theoretical essential nature of it isolated from any other consideration. An order to kill Jews expressed through graphic design is fundamentally wrong, and an implicit threat of violence expressed through graffiti is fundamentally wrong. I'm not trying to tar all graffiti by reference to this use of it. I'm saying that in many cases (not all) the significance of it goes beyond mere vandalism, and in those cases, it should be dealt more severely.

There are a host of alternative devices graffiti artists/vandels (depends on your point of view) could turn to if spray cans were banned. Like paint rollers with extendable handles or brooms.

Weird how people who claim to work for social justice often have no concern for othe people's rights. And would it have been so difficult to write "Stop the war" instead? Or did they really mean to deny the existence of war?

 

[Ed]

What's fundamentally wrong with graff?

check out this graffiti website www.woostercollective.com

another: http://www.houstongraffiti.com/albums/

It's theft.

 

[asthmatic camel]

Virtual graffiti. No mess, no fuss. http://www.graffiticreator.net/

 

[Mephisto]

When spray paint is outlawed, only outlaws will have spray paint.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

It's theft.

It's theft, and vandalism both, technically. I can steal your wallet, without making you a billboard for my message.

 

[mgidm86]

What's fundamentally wrong with graff?

check out this graffiti website www.woostercollective.com

another: http://www.houstongraffiti.com/albums/

What's NOT wrong with it?

I personally don't like people spray painting my house, place of business. Would you like me to tag your car for you?

Edit: Tagging is equivalent to animals "marking their territory". I do not appreciate some punk-ass "pissing" on my stuff. Not that I agree with these restrictions. I think it's silly to make spray paint so difficult to buy. Most people use it legally.

What was the movie where the kid got spray painted in the face after a cop caught him tagging? I loved that! Was it a Dirt Harry flick? I'm thinking it was more recent.

 

[David Swidler]

One of the Naked Gun flicks had a test of an anti-graffiti wall. When some kid pulled out a can, so did the wall, and got the kid in the face.

 

[mgidm86]

I remember now, it was Lethal Weapon...I think.

Incidentally, if the middle of the 3 images above is pushing the rules of this forum, someone please message me and I'll remove it, or maybe I'll put a big asterisk over the "U".

 

[Zep]

Let's go outside the box, shall we?

Make it mandatory that all spray paint sold to the general public be made of a medium that washes off completely in water even when dry. After that, any graffiti or tagging can be taken off easily with a bucket and sponge, or a garden hose. Or a Chux Superwipe! Or a kidney-filtered gallon of beer.

 

[Ladewig]

I prefer a more eye-for-an-eye approach. Each victim of a graffitti vandal should get to choose one personal belonging of the vandals to receive "artwork."

I've always thought that that would be a fair approach.

I've always wanted to draw a box around each "tag" and then write "this space reserved for punk-ass losers" above it. At the very least, it would make stake-outs shorter in that the vandal would return to the scene of the crime very quickly.

 

[mgidm86]

Let's go outside the box, shall we?

Make it mandatory that all spray paint sold to the general public be made of a medium that washes off completely in water even when dry. After that, any graffiti or tagging can be taken off easily with a bucket and sponge, or a garden hose. Or a Chux Superwipe! Or a kidney-filtered gallon of beer.

So we would be left with paint that is virtually useless for any outdoor application, gee thanks! Of course it could still be useful for tagging. The graffiti is there until it either rains or someone washes it off.

 

[ReFLeX]

I agree with that, but I don't think it's fair to condemn graffiti as an art because a lot of it is crap.

I do, because 99% of it really, really is. It's completely unnecessary to damage other people's property for your artistic needs. There should be no mature "artists" out spraying paint on anything that doesn't belong to them.

 

[chulbert]

What's fundamentally wrong with graff?

Fundamentally, if the artist doesn't own the canvas and isn't authorized to use it, it's vandalism. Otherwise we call them murals.

 

[Mephisto]

This would probably add about $50 to each can.

I prefer a more eye-for-an-eye approach. Each victim of a graffitti vandal should get to choose one personal belonging of the vandals to receive "artwork." Or perhaps "artistic" tattoos on the vandal's face.

CBL

Good idea, CBL4. My hometown actually uses something similar for taggers, when they're caught they're forced to perform community service by working on a city cleanup crew which targets tagging.

Tagger here (who are usually gang-bangers) are forced to go along and wash all the tagged surfaces the city crew can find - and they do it manually (solvents and rags). They're also responsible for keeping those surfaces clean for whatever time they're "sentenced, and if the areas they're assigned get tagged and don't get cleaned during their service period, they get time added.

It's a double-edged sword though, as the taggers usually know who the other taggers are and if they're from opposite gangs they try to stymie the efforts of the "convicted" which usually results in more frequent (and sometimes larger) graffitti and has been suspected of inciting gang violence.

Still, some young taggers have been turned away from associating with gangs and that's a good thing. I would really be interested in an art program that might give potential "street-artists" suitable materials and sanctioned walls within the city on which to display murals, etc. The city tried something similar with trash dumpsters in the inner city and everyone was surprised that the artistic dumpsters remained untouched, even in heavy gang territory. I suppose that lends credence to the idea that some graffitti artists are just that - frustrated artists that won't ever see a gallery.

BTW, not all street art stems from gangs, drugs and urban desolation - here are a few links that one of my favorite people here (demon) provided me regarding an artist in England whose work I think is utter genius and whose methods of fooling the purveyors of modern art makes him the world's foremost anarchy artist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3537136.stm

http://www.woostercollective.com/2005/03/a_wooster_exclusive_banksy_hit.html

http://www.banksy.co.uk/

 

[Luke T.]

It does seem drastic, but if it somehow achieved the goal of lessening graffiti, then I'm for it.

Is there any government intervention that you would oppose?

How about another Prohibition to prevent drunk drivers from killing people?

It amazes me how easily some people are willing to surrender a basic freedom to the State sometimes.

 

[Luke T.]

Outlaw swords? Okay. I don't own any.

Outlaw spray paint? Okay. I don't use the stuff.

Outlaw alchohol? Now just hold on a second, dammit!

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Let's go outside the box, shall we?

Make it mandatory that all spray paint sold to the general public be made of a medium that washes off completely in water even when dry. After that, any graffiti or tagging can be taken off easily with a bucket and sponge, or a garden hose. Or a Chux Superwipe! Or a kidney-filtered gallon of beer.

Graffiti artists fully accept that their work is temporary. That would only prevent utilitarian graffitti, like gang border markings, messages and tagging.

 

[Luke T.]

And, yes, I do care, as do you, or else neither of us would be responding. Since you feel that banning spray paint is too severe, may I ask what solution you would offer to help curb or eliminate grafitti?

Thanks!

Michael

Let's ask Councilman Vallone, who wants to ban spray paint, what solution he has for problems associated with alcohol:

Queens District Attorney Richard A. Brown and City Councilmember Peter Vallone Jr., in separate statements, have lashed out at the state legislature for its failure to increase the penalties in driving while intoxicated cases that result in death, which happened in Kew Gardens Hills last Friday night.

http://www.qgazette.com/news/2004/1028/Front_Page/001.html

What a novel idea! Tougher penalties for the guilty!

 

[Mephisto]

What a novel idea! Tougher penalties!

I keep seeing the parallel between spray paint cans and firearms (as there is a movement to ban both) - "gun nuts" (such as myself) have often touted tougher penalties for criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime, but we're always besieged by the insistence that "they might fall into the wrong hands," or "what if a child plays with it?" All valid concerns, but unlikely scenarios in a home where spray paint ownership is taken seriously.

Does anyone else agree that tougher penalties for the commission of a drive-by tagging is a suitable deterrent?