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Grace Millane murder - do we believe the accused?

Samson said:
Actions after are realistically explained by panic.
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Yeah, actions like recording images of her dead body and finding another sex partner on Tinder while her corpse was still in his home just scream "panic", don't they?
 
Foster Zygote said:
Yeah, actions like recording images of her dead body and finding another sex partner on Tinder while her corpse was still in his home just scream "panic", don't they?
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If I am defending, I say photographs are needed to support the death being misadventure rather than murder.
The victim was experienced in this practice it is claimed by other witnesses.
Clearly a jail term is necessary for all that happened after the death. I consider 17 years long in the context of other sentencing in NZ. He can be denied parole with any life sentence, 10 years statutory minimum. If he needs 17 years, keep him in, but the penal system should have nobler goals.
 
Samson said:
If I am defending, I say photographs are needed to support the death being misadventure rather than murder.
The victim was experienced in this practice it is claimed by other witnesses.
Clearly a jail term is necessary for all that happened after the death. I consider 17 years long in the context of other sentencing in NZ. He can be denied parole with any life sentence, 10 years statutory minimum. If he needs 17 years, keep him in, but the penal system should have nobler goals.
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He was so panicked that he decided to take photos of her body to support his eventual claim that her death was accidental (because, of course, you can so easily see the difference between intentional and unintentional strangulation in a photo) before researching corpse disposal, getting laid again, and then burying the evidence in a suitcase.
 
Amazing that after we find out the killer committed a string of other violent crimes Samson is unable to admit that he completely misjudged the situation.
 
Garrison said:
Amazing that after we find out the killer committed a string of other violent crimes Samson is unable to admit that he completely misjudged the situation.
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I find it more disturbing that he downplayed rape as "extreme sexual need".
 
It is a cheap trick to put me on the stand, and disappointing for the integrity of the forum.
The trial judge in sentencing found no evidence at all of premeditation in this homicide, and the victim was compliant in the initial stages by propensity evidence.

This does not add up to any conclusion about anyone's dissertation on sexual violence.
However, open discussion in society is obviously a thing of the past.
 
Samson said:
It is a cheap trick to put me on the stand, and disappointing for the integrity of the forum.
The trial judge in sentencing found no evidence at all of premeditation in this homicide, and the victim was compliant in the initial stages by propensity evidence.

This does not add up to any conclusion about anyone's dissertation on sexual violence.
However, open discussion in society is obviously a thing of the past.
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You put forward a dubious theory about Millane's murder being an accident, now when we discover that the killer had a history of violence against women you still try to defend his actions, it's your attempt to defend Grace Millane's killer and downplay his actions that are on the stand. Do you at least accept that this new information proves that the killer did attack women and commit acts of violence against them?
 
Garrison said:
You put forward a dubious theory about Millane's murder being an accident, now when we discover that the killer had a history of violence against women you still try to defend his actions, it's your attempt to defend Grace Millane's killer and downplay his actions that are on the stand. Do you at least accept that this new information proves that the killer did attack women and commit acts of violence against them?
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Yes. I went to the trial for a day and listened at great length to at least one of these women. She testified convincingly she thought she was going to die, because he sat on her face, and she was essentially incapacitated and unable to speak. But this does not mean he was homicidal. He was clearly a lethal presence in both these cases, so I am not questioning the dire need for his incarceration to protect hapless females. I can say that 17 years surprised me in the context of plenty of other New Zealand murders where death was premeditated and completely intentional.

I also listened to the pathologist, and the injury was completely localised to a part of the neck, so no general assault, and no defensive injuries were recorded to Kempson.
 
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There's this super-handy life-hack you can try to deal with extreme sexual need, actually. It's so cool! And the best part is, it's free. It's called playing with yourself. You can imagine whatever depraved **** gets you off, experience an orgasm, and then not go to jail! The one weird trick jail wardens and wicked prosecuters of the west don't want you to know.
 
The subject is essentially crime and punishment. Sometimes it is not clear exactly what the crime is. For example a manslaughter verdict is allowed but for some reason the defence took this off the table if I recall, so clearly imagined that a full not guilty was possible. Given that this was not a whodunnit, there is thus some debate about exactly what the crime was, but this thread has become pretty monochrome on the subject, so discussion seems futile.
 
Samson said:
The subject is essentially crime and punishment. Sometimes it is not clear exactly what the crime is. For example a manslaughter verdict is allowed but for some reason the defence took this off the table if I recall, so clearly imagined that a full not guilty was possible. Given that this was not a whodunnit, there is thus some debate about exactly what the crime was, but this thread has become pretty monochrome on the subject, so discussion seems futile.
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What is futile is taking a position that every guilty verdict is faulty and every crime is mitigated.
 
Samson said:
The subject is essentially crime and punishment. Sometimes it is not clear exactly what the crime is. For example a manslaughter verdict is allowed but for some reason the defence took this off the table if I recall, so clearly imagined that a full not guilty was possible. Given that this was not a whodunnit, there is thus some debate about exactly what the crime was, but this thread has become pretty monochrome on the subject, so discussion seems futile.
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Auf Wiedersehen.
 
Samson said:
Yes. I went to the trial for a day and listened at great length to at least one of these women. She testified convincingly she thought she was going to die, because he sat on her face, and she was essentially incapacitated and unable to speak. But this does not mean he was homicidal. He was clearly a lethal presence in both these cases, so I am not questioning the dire need for his incarceration to protect hapless females. I can say that 17 years surprised me in the context of plenty of other New Zealand murders where death was premeditated and completely intentional.

I also listened to the pathologist, and the injury was completely localised to a part of the neck, so no general assault, and no defensive injuries were recorded to Kempson.
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To paraphrase Conan Doyle, you heard but you did not understand. You have decided this killer was hard done by and even in the face of evidence that he was a serial violent offender you still remain unmoved.
 
Butter! said:
There's this super-handy life-hack you can try to deal with extreme sexual need, actually. It's so cool! And the best part is, it's free. It's called playing with yourself. You can imagine whatever depraved **** gets you off, experience an orgasm, and then not go to jail! The one weird trick jail wardens and wicked prosecuters of the west don't want you to know.
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Crucial qualification: whether you end up in jail depends on where you do it.
 
I just watched a Netflix video on this called The Lie. It had a lot of footage of his interrogation. His lies were comprehensive, and were exposed by CCTV.

What I was a little surprised about was the extent of CCTV in Auckland. It seems as well covered as London.

Anyway, nothing in the show mitigated his guilt.

I did like the spontaneous hake performed by a group of young people after Grace’s body was found. Well worth the 90 minutes to watch the show.
 
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