Grabbing Palestinian land, present tense

[Mycroft]

Nothing new in this Reuters article, however it explains the issues more clearly than the BBC article.

I don't see how it explains the issue more clearly when it only mentions the issue in passing. Also, the text of this article is a little confusing:

Qurie also complained about continued building of Jewish settlements and said Palestinians were "very, very angry" that Israel might enforce a 55-year-old property law that Palestinian officials said could lead to the confiscation of nearly half of all Palestinian-owned land in East Jerusalem.

In the previous article it implied that the land confiscations had already happened. It even had a guy who "lost" a half-dozen acres of olive trees, although another article I read said he'd been able to harvest his olives.

So I'm confused...is this land confiscation that's happened? Or is it something that could happen? It's a pretty important distinction.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I'd be glad to discuss treatment of Palestinian refugees by Arab countries, though preferably in a different thread. (Indeed, it sounds outrageous. And if my tax dollars were supporting those nations financially, I'd be even more outraged.)

It not only "sounds" outrageous I linked the sources which show that Palestinians are forbidden to own land in Lebanon and that 30,000 Palestinians lost their homes in Lybia and 440,000 Palestinians lost their homes in Kuwait only ten years ago.

I think the Israeli law sucks and is wrong and thank goodness Israel is the only government on earth to pass stupid and unjust laws...

 

[webfusion]

clarifications and a tangenital issue

While the OP states that the lands are "being confiscated", it is really Reuters that has the correct version. The Israeli cabinet voted to go ahead with the plan, but there is a challenge from the Palestinian Authority, and to date, no lands have had this ruling applied in fact.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/530906.html

Byline Meron Rapoport---
Hadash MK Ahmed Tibi sent a letter to Attorney General Menachem Mazuz asking for clarification and demanding it be rescinded. Former Meretz head Shulamit Aloni likened the decision to "Jezebel's act against Naboth the Jezreelite, if not worse." (Aloni was referring to the story in I Kings 21:1-19 of Ahab's expropriation of the vineyard of Naboth at the urging of his wife, Jezebel).

Gotta love that woman, Ms Aloni. What a quick mind, chapter and verse.

============================

Also, along the same lines, more or less, this news report today in the Israeli press --
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/532493.html

(a right-wing objection to a recent Attorney General Menachem Mazuz decision that states...) "all land managed by the Israel Lands Administration, including land owned by the Jewish National Fund, must be marketed without discrimination or limits" (a revolutionary change in the JNF policy of marketing land to Jews only)

and a related story, illustrating the direct impact of the previous policy (on an Israeli Arab, Mr As'ad Halul)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/532443.html

 

[CBL4]

You also fail to mention that terrorism was very low after OSLO compared with the levels that produced this. That is, Oslo was given a chance, the land grabs never stopped, Oslo was dead, the war was back on.

Not quite. Immediately following the Oslo peace accords, the Palestinians went on their worst (at the time) orgy of murder. This was written in 1998:
[/quote]More Israelis have been killed by Palestinian terrorists in the 5 years since the first Oslo agreement was signed in September 1993 than in the 15 preceding years. ...
List 1: Fatalities in Palestinian Terror Attacks Since 1978

1978 -- 12
1979 -- 14
1980 -- 10
1981 -- 5
1982 -- 2
1983 -- 6
1984 -- 7
1985 -- 14
1986 -- 7
1987 -- 5
1988 -- 14
1989 -- 32
1990 -- 23
1991 -- 26
1992 -- 39
1993 -- 64 (38 before Oslo; 26 after Oslo)
1994 -- 73
1995 -- 52
1996 -- 92[/quote]

http://www.israel-embassy.org.uk/web/pages/fatal.htm

CBL

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Of course that's how they call it, and unthinkingly you accept it.

Tell me, can you think of another group of people in the last 100 years or so where they have been considered refugees even after 3 or 4 generations?

Umm Jews?

 

[Mycroft]

Umm Jews?

I am not aware of any Jews that are still considered refugees after three or four generations. If you believe I am overlooking some, please show me where.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

You said the past hundred years. My comment is demonstrable.

BTW I noticed a seismic shift in your posts that demonstrates my initial impression of you. Are you the same Mycroft or did you license twits to use Your account? I noticed and acknowledged a careful, studied , analysis that seems of late to be absent. It's almost like your book-cased a reasonable person sandwiched between two unreasonable people . I liked the middle incarnation much better.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
You said the past hundred years. My comment is demonstrable.

Then please demonstrate. I am certainly aware of Jews that were refugees in the 20th century, but I am unaware of any Jews who remained refugees for three or four generations.

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
BTW I noticed a seismic shift in your posts that demonstrates my initial impression of you. Are you the same Mycroft or did you license twits to use Your account? I noticed and acknowledged a careful, studied , analysis that seems of late to be absent. It's almost like your book-cased a reasonable person sandwiched between two unreasonable people . I liked the middle incarnation much better.

Interesting. So you're saying you believe I started as being unreasonable, became reasonable, and am now unreasonable again?

 

[zenith-nadir]

Interesting. So you're saying you believe I started as being unreasonable, became reasonable, and am now unreasonable again?

When TillEulenspiegel deems you "unworthy" or doesn't like what you say he launches into personal insults.

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
Are you the same Mycroft or did you license twits to use Your account?

After the personal insults he will ignore you then brag about how you 'made' his "ignore list".



[edited to add]

Speaking of refugees....why do Palestinians still live as refugees in refugee camps in Palestinian controlled areas?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: clarifications and a tangenital issue

While the OP states that the lands are "being confiscated", it is really Reuters that has the correct version...

Well, then it seems what we have here is a rather blatant example of BBC bias in their news reporting. If they’re reporting that Israel is seizing tracts of East Jerusalem land and they’re not, then they’re reporting falsehood.

Certainly the issue deserves attention, but it deserves truthful attention. This article from the BBC is just fodder for the bigots and the moonbats.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Mycroft : "Interesting. So you're saying you believe I started as being unreasonable, became reasonable, and am now unreasonable again?"
It sounds funny on it's face doesn't it?

When You first joined the forum we debated a few times and You seemed to be joined at the intellectual hip w/ZN. I stated such in a post.
..Till :"Well evidently you are exactly type of person I was describing. Not only am I anti-Semitic but I'm a liberal as well."......"Finally I believe we can all see the mettle of your character by reading your litany of actions you believe should be taken to create peace in the territory in question. The laundry list of proposals does not include one (1) action by the Israeli side.."
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870101472&highlight=mycroft#post1870101472

Later you seemed to adopt a wider outlook that seemed reasonable. I said as much in a post
..."Mycroft, I am pleasantly surprised. I must say the the tracts you have taking lately have seemed more reasonable then what I remembered from past posts."

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870384660&highlight=mycroft#post1870384660
. Lately you seem to have reverted to your previous position I.E. being a dogmatic supporter of anything pro-Israel. Maybe You don't see it , it seems plain to me tho.

 

[Mycroft]

Mycroft : ...

What about the Jewish refugees?

 

[a_unique_person]

Not quite. Immediately following the Oslo peace accords, the Palestinians went on their worst (at the time) orgy of murder. This was written in 1998:

More Israelis have been killed by Palestinian terrorists in the 5 years since the first Oslo agreement was signed in September 1993 than in the 15 preceding years. ...
List 1: Fatalities in Palestinian Terror Attacks Since 1978

1978 -- 12
1979 -- 14
1980 -- 10
1981 -- 5
1982 -- 2
1983 -- 6
1984 -- 7
1985 -- 14
1986 -- 7
1987 -- 5
1988 -- 14
1989 -- 32
1990 -- 23
1991 -- 26
1992 -- 39
1993 -- 64 (38 before Oslo; 26 after Oslo)
1994 -- 73
1995 -- 52
1996 -- 92[/quote]

http://www.israel-embassy.org.uk/web/pages/fatal.htm

CBL [/QUOTE]

You are being very deceptive with your statistics. There was an initial, and, unfortunately, expected rise in terrorist acts by extremists trying to derail Oslo. Similar acts happened in Northern Ireland and England by extremists in the IRA trying to derail those peace initiatives.

However, after the initial rise, the numbers dropped back down to be much lower again.

 

[a_unique_person]

It not only "sounds" outrageous I linked the sources which show that Palestinians are forbidden to own land in Lebanon and that 30,000 Palestinians lost their homes in Lybia and 440,000 Palestinians lost their homes in Kuwait only ten years ago.

I think the Israeli law sucks and is wrong and thank goodness Israel is the only government on earth to pass stupid and unjust laws...

The difference is that these laws are taking land that was legally owned.

 

[zenith-nadir]

A-G cancels gov't decision to expropriate lands in J'lem - Feb. 1, 2005 1:10

Attorney-General Menahem Mazuz decided on Tuesday to cancel the government's secret decision to apply the Absentee Property Law to lands and buildings in Jerusalem owned by Palestinians living outside the post-Six Day War boundaries of Jerusalem.

Since the goose-stepping-nazi-zionist-law has been cancelled varwoche, a_u_p, Demon, Cleon and TillEulenspiegel lets talk about the 30,000 Palestinians who lost their homes/property in Lybia and 440,000 Palestinians lost their homes/property in Kuwait. What are your feelings about that. A land grab? Ethnic cleansing? Oppression?

 

[Mycroft]

The difference is that these laws are taking land that was legally owned.

So...didn't the Palestinian-Arabs in Kuwait legally own their land?

 

[varwoche]

A-G cancels gov't decision to expropriate lands in J'lem - Feb. 1, 2005 1:10 Since the goose-stepping-nazi-zionist-law has been cancelled varwoche, a_u_p, Demon, Cleon and TillEulenspiegel lets talk about the 30,000 Palestinians who lost their homes/property in Lybia and 440,000 Palestinians lost their homes/property in Kuwait. What are your feelings about that. A land grab? Ethnic cleansing? Oppression?

First, I'm glad to hear it. Second, thank you for reminding me (again) why I avoid these threads.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

HAHAHAHa!
Thats great varwoche.
You should know better by now .

Michal Palin : Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.

John Cleese : No it isn't

You might as well go to R&P and argue with 1inchrist about theism or Sci & med and try to engage Kumar in an enlightened discussion about homeopathy!

 

[kalen]

The great irony is the wall itself has been deemed illegal. Wouldn't it be great if everybody could pick and choose which laws they want to follow. Israel does it, the US does it, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.

 

[zenith-nadir]

First, I'm glad to hear it. Second, thank you for reminding me (again) why I avoid these threads.

So does that mean that you are really not interested in Palestinian land rights if Israel isn't involved?

The great irony is the wall itself has been deemed illegal. Wouldn't it be great if everybody could pick and choose which laws they want to follow. Israel does it, the US does it, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.

An even greater irony is that Israel had to build a wall to keep men, women and teenagers from blowing themselves up inside Israel... yet the wall is more disturbing to some than the well-documented bombers themselves.