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GOP eats their own.

jj said:
Tony, while I agree with half of what you say, Santorum is not a conservative, he is a Christian Talibanist totalitarian.

A conservative would never, EVER call for such radical change.
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I agree with you, but I think this is semantics. The wing-nuts and religious wackos who call themselves conservatives and claim the conservative flag are the ones I am talking about.
 
Tony said:
Such an event would have to be pretty severe and the public would have to put the blame unambiguously on the president for it to really swing the election.
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Tricky said:
That's a reasonable position, however, I worry that something might happen. The stock market might crash or Obama might get discovered in bed with an intern. Then Santorum would be president, and that thought gives me the heebee jeebies.
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Tricky said:
McCain had a reasonable chance to beat Obama until the stock crash in October of 2008.

Kerry was leading Bush handily until he got Swiftboated.

Yeah, stuff can happen.
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There's already talk about the effect of gas prices on the election, and earlier examinations that show some correlation with incumbent popularity. I've been wondering if tensions and war with Iran would affect the economy in a way that hammers at Obama's approval ratings.

Would a blockage of the Strait of Hormuz lead to an increase in Santorum?
 
KingMerv00 said:
Before someone feels the need to bring it up...Yes, liberals attack their own too.

There, glad that's sorted.
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Oh, no question. But this is in real time. So, grab your favorite snack and soda and enjoy.
 
Gee, Republicans think Santorum is an extremist, and liberals around here call it eating their own? From your standpoint, Randfan, isn't this a return to rationality? Or do you think Santorum is not an extremist?
:confused:
 
RandFan said:
This really isn't a controversial point.

There's no way in hell Romney would spend that kind of money if he thought he had the nomination in the bag.
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Romney is spending money campaigning for president in a swing State. He is not breaking a sweat over Santorum.

What might make him nervous is the "open primary" nature of MI combining with the utter unelectability of Santorum and drawing Democrats to the polls who hope to place a weaker candidate against Obama.

I am tempted to veer of into a discussion of what constitutes an "attack" ad, and what is actually being attacked in the current crop, but I think that might make me guilty of "moving the goalposts".
 
Brainster said:
Gee, Republicans think Santorum is an extremist, and liberals around here call it eating their own? From your standpoint, Randfan, isn't this a return to rationality? Or do you think Santorum is not an extremist?
:confused:
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I can't begin to tell you just how inspiring the entire affair is. It brings a tear to my eye. Such reason, grace and rationality. All in a single party? Truly a clarion call to the world that the GOP won't put up with extremists. Just ask Darrell Issa and his all male band. Just ask the legislators that have submitted hundreds of anti-women bills. Yes, we are supposed to believe that the GOP is rational and are just culling the extremists from their ranks.

Sure.
 
RandFan said:
First they came for Newt.

As a result, many have started to hit the panic button, and they’re doing so in a way you probably wouldn’t have expected from the GOP, which still counts evangelicals among its strongest and most reliable base vote.
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If you did not want President Obama to be reelected wouldn't you be nervous.

As far as eating their own do you remember the campaign between President Obama and Hillary Clinton. That is normal
 
bozothedeathmachine said:
This pretty much sums up my thinking as well. The only thing that makes me worry is what happens if something comes up in the meantime that would give Santorum an actual chance?
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Yes, this is my big concern as well, and why I still hope that Romney wins the GOP nod and can run back to the center. An unforeseen economic crisis could make a lot of people think that Santorum's nutty religious comments actually make sense, and if he's the GOP's guy...

Can you say "Nehemiah Scudder"? :boxedin:
 
Brainster said:
Gee, Republicans think Santorum is an extremist, and liberals around here call it eating their own? From your standpoint, Randfan, isn't this a return to rationality? Or do you think Santorum is not an extremist?
:confused:
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RandFan said:
I can't begin to tell you just how inspiring the entire affair is. It brings a tear to my eye. Such reason, grace and rationality. All in a single party? Truly a clarion call to the world that the GOP won't put up with extremists. Just ask Darrell Issa and his all male band. Just ask the legislators that have submitted hundreds of anti-women bills. Yes, we are supposed to believe that the GOP is rational and are just culling the extremists from their ranks.

Sure.
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Brainster, as much as I respect you, I am solidly with Randfan on this one. Everyone has seen just how extreme the Republican party has gotten in the last couple of years, and their desire to put all of these clowns on full display for the GOP primaries shows it even more.

Claiming that the GOP isn't extreme, which is to say it is secretly populated by a large number of moderates, is stretching it a bit. I think if you really look around within your own party ranks, you are going to find yourself more and more in the minority, especially if things keep going the way they've been lately.

I hope I'm wrong. I sincerely hope that more moderate Republicans like you and others here can kick the religious/Tea Party/socially conservative kooks out of positions of power within the GOP and that you can steer the party back to the days of Reagan and Goldwater. If I didn't really hope these things I wouldn't have donated so much to groups like Log Cabin Republicans and Republican Majority for Choice over the years.

But I'm not holding out much hope, because we've seen what the power brokers in the GOP choose when confronted with radicalism vs. pragmatic moderation.
 
funny-obama-laughing-republicans-2012-elections.jpg
 
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RandFan said:
I can't begin to tell you just how inspiring the entire affair is. It brings a tear to my eye. Such reason, grace and rationality. All in a single party? Truly a clarion call to the world that the GOP won't put up with extremists. Just ask Darrell Issa and his all male band. Just ask the legislators that have submitted hundreds of anti-women bills. Yes, we are supposed to believe that the GOP is rational and are just culling the extremists from their ranks.

Sure.
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So you have reversed your position about 180 degrees from the OP?

BTW, you were a Republican for a long time. What about all the "anti-women" bills back then? Did you just hold your nose and vote GOP anyway? Or has the party only recently become "extremist" in your view?
 
Lots of good things going on with this.

Anonomous 'high net worth' individuals become less 'high net worth' funding super PACs.

Said anonymous individuals eventually lose their anonymity, because the law does call for disclosure, even if not in a timely fashion.

Canidates become more obviously bought and paid for tools to advance 'high net worth' individuals' interests.

Republicans do Obama's work for him by digging up and publicizing each other's closet skeletons and secret nastiness.

The 'I can be more conservative than you are' game plays out like a gas war, leading all the candidates to adopt such extreme positions that they ALL become unelectable.

Good times.
 
Andrew Wiggin said:
Lots of good things going on with this.

Anonomous 'high net worth' individuals become less 'high net worth' funding super PACs.

Said anonymous individuals eventually lose their anonymity, because the law does call for disclosure, even if not in a timely fashion.

Canidates become more obviously bought and paid for tools to advance 'high net worth' individuals' interests.

Republicans do Obama's work for him by digging up and publicizing each other's closet skeletons and secret nastiness.

The 'I can be more conservative than you are' game plays out like a gas war, leading all the candidates to adopt such extreme positions that they ALL become unelectable.

Good times.
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Except Romney has spent the last several months being painted as a "moderate" in every debate, discussion, and political ad sponsored by his opponents.

The far right is going to vote against Obama no matter what, the only issue for the GOP is getting them riled up enough to turn out in large numbers- something being worked on by the second tier candidates like Santorum. They will convince themselves (listen to Limbaugh recently) that Romney has been moved further to the right by the primaries.

Meanwhile, Romney gets to play "moderate" to the Independents in the general election-just look at what his Republican opponents have been saying about him all along.

I fear it could work for him.
 
Distracted1 said:
Meanwhile, Romney gets to play "moderate" to the Independents in the general election-just look at what his Republican opponents have been saying about him all along.

I fear it could work for him.
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You can bet the Obama camp will leverage the Republican's claim of Romney being a flip flopper, chameleon, decision by political expediency.

He's been very susceptible during the primary run as he moved to the right, it will only get worse if he tries to play a more moderate during the election.

Having said that, voters have short memories, easily led and influenced and often vote emotionally. So all bets are off.
 
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Brainster said:
BTW, you were a Republican for a long time. What about all the "anti-women" bills back then? Did you just hold your nose and vote GOP anyway? Or has the party only recently become "extremist" in your view?
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To begin with, I don't view the world in any such fashion. I will admit that my rhetoric might at times appear that way. But in reality, unlike many on this forum I actually want, very much, healthy and vibrant oppositions. I don't buy into the notion of good party bad party. So, if you appeal to my better angels I'll gladly admit that the GOP isn't monolithic and that it is unfair to paint with a broad brush. And that's something that many of the opponents of OWS are not willing to do.

To answer your questions directly. There has been much that has bothered me about the GOP for some time now. Primarily the ever growing incestuous relationship with religion. And yes, I did very much despise the anti-women sentiment of a large and vocal segment and I would be frustrated by the fervor of it that would boil over from time to time.

I do very much believe that the GOP has been moving further and further to the right. So much so that it has driven into a ditch and is now beholden to some of the worst ideologues of the party.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
It's just... so... I used to be the kind of guy who'd be smirking and cracking jokes about it, laughing it up.

But this, it's ...sad. Half of us are... willing to vote for... idiots.
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Well, half of the people willing to vote in the first place are willing to vote for idiots. A lot of us just stay home, apparently.



Tony said:
I'm not trying to dismiss your concern, but how likely is that to happen? Has something like this happened in any presidential election the last 100 years or so?
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I seem to remember GHWB being considered somewhat of a a shoo-in for reelection . . . until the economy took a nose dive.
 
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