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GOP Congressman clueless about Surgeon General

That you previously avoided the question.

I didn't avoid it. I quoted is and addressed the larger issue. Now, you are in a good position to judge your own motivations, so maybe that is why you think I was avoiding something when I did not directly address every single word of your post. I guess it is safe to assume there some embarrassing reason you don't respond to s many questions and comments.


Why? Why did it go to the CDC, when the NIMH is a better fit?

Again, you reading the names of the agencies does not mean you understand the scope and abilities they have. At least you've given up on your claim that the FBI should be running these studies.


I have said no such thing. Go back and read more carefully, because you are clearly confused.

hmmmmm

What have the statistics that the CDC did collect on guns actually managed to accomplish, other than serve as fodder for political arguments? If that's what you mean by "dealing with issues", well, I'm perfectly happy to simply skip it.

I guess you did say it after all.
 
Should the CDC study the effect of exercise on general health? Or should they focus themselves on stopping the spread of infectious disease in the public? I think that the answer is obviously the latter. We don't need yet another agency to fight smoking, obesity, etc, but we do need one that understands how infectious diseases work and can step in and coordinate the proper response to public health threats like Ebola, the flu, etc.

Thus, the Centers for Disease Control should indeed focus on what their name implies. We don't need them to slowly grow and cover every concievable threat to human health.
 
I guess you did say it after all.

I told you to read more carefully. You chose not to. The quote indicates that I do not have a problem with the specified outcome. It does not indicate that I am actually opposed to alternative outcomes. This logical distinction may seem sophisticated the first time you consider it, but I'm sure with time and contemplation you can grasp its subtle but important meaning.
 
I have no doubt that gun lovers will find fault with whatever government agency would be tasked with the job. They will just wiggle from one excuse to another.
 
You mean like . . . health care?

Health care involves political and social issues AND medical issues, so it makes sense for the CDC to be involved at some level. If you're going to argue that the study of gun violence involves medical issues, then I think I could easily apply that argument with equal validity to any area of human endeavor, from agricultural to road construction to prostitution to space exploration. An argument so general is nugatory.

Just because it is a political or social issue means that we should not study it?

No, of course not. But deploying medical doctors to study it makes no sense. It would be like hiring Roger Federer to sing and dance and Beyoncé to play tennis.

Odd approach. I thought political and social issues could use a bit of science to inform the discussion. Facts help, except with guns.

Of course facts help. But when you use respected experts in one area to study or opine in an area outside of their expertise, it raises suspicion that the motivation is cynical - that perhaps what you're really doing is trying to use those experts' reputations to burnish pre-determined conclusions.

Right, which is why we can't study gun deaths?

Of course we can study gun deaths. You can, I can, and many people already do. There's nothing medically interesting about gun deaths, however. The physics and medical consequences of bullets traveling through human bodies is already very well understood.

<snip>

Like abortion? Or birth control?

How do you think the pro-choice community would react if the President nominated a pro-life surgeon general? How would you feel? Cogitate on that a bit and you might get where the pro-gun people are coming from.

<snip>

Science has no credibility in the eyes of the GOP. It can not get lower.

Actually, I think the Democrats are increasingly becoming the anti-science party. They just use science as a buzzword, but they are even more likely to ignore science if it can't be used to advance their social goals. Fodder for another thread though.
 
Too bad Jordan Davis didn't have gun. Too bad John Crawford III didn't have a real gun.

It seems that laws are incapable of stopping gun violence and we should all have a firearm. Perhaps we should provide funds to ensure every poor person has a firearm and is required to carry it at all times. I know that's not the argument you are making but isn't that the logical conclusion that follows from your argument?

Well, since my argument was hyperbolic satire, your statement is the argument I was making. I didn't think I needed a smiley.
 
Actually, I think the Democrats are increasingly becoming the anti-science party. They just use science as a buzzword, but they are even more likely to ignore science if it can't be used to advance their social goals. Fodder for another thread though.

Just like to mention that this is an unsupported, throwaway line designed to poison the well with an adendum that no-one's allowed to discuss it because it's off topic but the author is allowed to leave it here as unsubstatiated and unchallengable.

Nice.
 
Just like to mention that this is an unsupported, throwaway line designed to poison the well with an adendum that no-one's allowed to discuss it because it's off topic but the author is allowed to leave it here as unsubstatiated and unchallengable.

Nice.

Did you read what I responded to? Tit for tat my friend.
 
It's not approaching "epidemic proportions," whatever that means. It has been receding from it for two decades.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/mass-shootings-increasing-harvard-research

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/mass-shootings-rising-harvard

But new research from the Harvard School of Public Health demonstrates that mass shootings in public have become far more frequent. The Harvard findings are also corroborated by a separate report issued recently by the FBI.
 

The frequency of mass shootings should scale linearly with the population, ceteris paribus, so I think we should expect an increase as the population grows.

Regardless, does it really matter if 10 people die all at once in a mass shooting rather than in 10 separate shooting incidents? The important metric is the death rate due to gun violence, which has been going down. If you really want to get into the weeds, I think we should focus only on the death rate of innocents due to gun violence. I'm not as concerned about criminals killing each other.
 
The frequency of mass shootings should scale linearly with the population, ceteris paribus, so I think we should expect an increase as the population grows.

Regardless, does it really matter if 10 people die all at once in a mass shooting rather than in 10 separate shooting incidents? The important metric is the death rate due to gun violence, which has been going down. If you really want to get into the weeds, I think we should focus only on the death rate of innocents due to gun violence. I'm not as concerned about criminals killing each other.


Mass shootings are more obvious in the media, it's much stronger (but just as useless) anecdotal evidence. Emotionally, mass shootings are more impactful but you're right, at a fundemental level it doesn't matter if one's loved one was shot on their own or part of a group.

Criminal killing each other is a problem as, as far as I understand it, most of time they're not a very good shot.
 
You're certainly welcome to point out all the anti-science in the Democratic platform or espoused by recent leading Democratic presidential candidates or leading Democratic elected officials.

Oh, I'm not saying either statement is incorrect at all, simply that they're both unsupported digs at the other side and I get a bit hacked off with it. I'm probably guilty of it myself but the amount of well poisoning and offensive nicknames for politicians of the other side that goes on here, each and every instance of which is an example of thinking so far away from the critical ideal we're all supposed to attempt to achieve, just does my loop.

I withdraw the comment completely and will now return you to your regularly scheduled progamming.
 
Yeah, I get it. You see the name Center for Disease Control, you imagine they only are supposed to deal with disease. When you discover their mission is far broader than that, you conclude their mission, not your understanding, is in error. <snip>

That seems to be the case. I wonder if some of the posters have even heard of the National Center for Injury Prevention? It's part of CDC. One of the best things CDC accomplished was in auto safety. Recommendations and strategies they helped establish probably save thousands of lives every year.
 
That seems to be the case. I wonder if some of the posters have even heard of the National Center for Injury Prevention? It's part of CDC. One of the best things CDC accomplished was in auto safety. Recommendations and strategies they helped establish probably save thousands of lives every year.

Well, there you go. How many agencies do we need to research and come up with auto injury prevention? We should be reducing this number and not increasing it. As another poster pointed out, everything we do can impact our health in one way or another. Should the CDC concern itself with every human activity? I say that's ridiculous. That isn't the role of the government.
 
... Offer a better alternative. Gun control groups have not done that so far ...

I am not an advocate one way or another, but when I started a thread about "smart guns" working only with biometric ID the gun-rights folks on this forum were unenthusiastic. They brought up scenarios of gun failure, fair enough I guess but the accidental shooting of children did not carry much weight.

If they weren't saying "Dead/injured children carry no weight," I couldn't tell. My takeaway was that such a system must be 100 percent "foolproof," but why would we want to make using lethal force easier for fools?

Cancer is a disease. Not all diseases are infectious.

Homicide is not a disease. It is a crime.

Smoking isn't a disease, yet a past surgeon general targeted it. Why? I think it's because there was a clear net harm.

In the journalistic parlance I was raised on, "homicide" is value-neutral. "Murder" is a crime.

I think people who feel strongly about gun control either way are sometimes talking past each other. It's easier to measure "harm" than it is to measure "gain" associated with widespread access to firearms. But you still have: On one side, accidental shootings involving children. On the other side, foiling tyranny and crime.

It is dishonest to blame all shootings on a lack of gun control. Equally dishonest IMO is discounting gun control as a method to reduce shootings.
 
My examples of lead poisoning and cigarettes demonstrates that a health problem need not have a disease vector like viruses to warrant attention from the Surgeon General, right?

Since when did guns come in packs of twenty with a health warning from the Surgeon General? Huh?

Since when could you get guns in light and menthol? Huh?
 

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