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Google defends operation in China

headscratcher4

Philosopher
headscratcher4
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Apr 14, 2002
Messages
7,776
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060412...fDrVlys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Google's chairman says it would be arrogant to walk into China and tell them how to manage their internet, culture, etc. Methinks they have dollar figures in their eyes -- perfectly acceptable -- but is there any ethical high ground here?

Couldn't the same logic be used to justify working in Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia? China at the highpoint of Maoism, or in North Korea?

It is a philosophical question: when is cooperation with censoring authority ok? When does it cross the line to helping evil? Has google crossed the line?

I suspect that it is getting close...too severe a judgement -- given that China is changing? Will the need for access to information eventually overwhelm Chinise efforts to control it?

If Google can give into the Chinese government (because of the alleged greater good it serves), couldn't they also give into our government?

How slippery is the slope?

Discuss.
 
Don't Google, and other ISPs, etc, give in to US laws already? What's the rules when identity details are demanded of them?

The problem for the Chinese government is going to be Hong Kong. They already have full access and are, to all intents and purposes, a western country w.r.t. internet content and usage. Heck, they supply a whole bunch of it! The main point is that HK, like other western economies, relies on internet access to operate - no international internet = business is in serious trouble!

However HK is now officially Chinese for the last 10 years. So is the government going to shut access down in the province? How well will that play out? Do they do that and see a major source of income fall off as a result?

How about Shanghai, one of the boom economy regions of Asia, and not a long way from HK either. Satellite access already exists there, not to mention other assorted links to the "outside world" - will that be curtailed?

In both cases, I doubt it...

And technically speaking, the ability to cover all internet bolt-holes in and out is nigh impossible anyway. The ability to hide and secure data transmissions electronically will always be well ahead of the Chinese government's ability to locate and decrypt it. It's a lost cause right from the start, without taking extraordinarily drastic measures.

Lastly, there's the Olympics. Imagine if the coverage of that event was subject to the proposed restrictions. It could be done, feasibly, but WOULD it get done? To do so would cost China dearly in lost revenue from broadcasting. So it would be a political nightmare if they did...
 
I had the opportunity to see Vint Cerf (Vice President and Chief Internet Evangelist) in my department for a talk on Google. In the Q&A session he responded to the question by saying that some information was better than none and that for the results they block they could say they had blocked them; which was a feature that they requested and were somewhat surprised that Chinese allowed them. Hence you may not get certain results but at least you are told you have been blocked.
 
I wonder if the FCC is run by china's leader......

hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................
 
I'm impressed by Google's business model and the success they seem to be enjoying. I don't think it's their responsibility to bring about social change in China. That would be something the Chinese citizens would have to bring about.

Google needs to expand and if they didn't "play well" with the Chinese government, I'm sure they would be totally blocked in China.

Charlie (do no harm, except maybe in China) Monoxide
 
Their only job is to make their shareholders money, not fight for what's right.
 
Whoracle said:
Their only job is to make their shareholders money, not fight for what's right.
Click to expand...

Correct, so why they are being treated differently from other corporations is beyond me.

Microsoft does it and they are evil; Google does it and they are doing something which is better than nothing.
 
At least Google hasn't turned anyone in to the Chinese Government like Yahoo did:

The text of the verdict in the case of journalist Shi Tao - sentenced in April to 10 years in prison for “divulging state secrets abroad” - shows that Yahoo ! Holdings (Hong Kong) Ltd. provided China’s state security authorities with details that helped to identify and convict him, Reporters Without Borders said today.
Click to expand...
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14884&var_recherche=Yahoo+and+china
 
Whoracle said:
Their only job is to make their shareholders money, not fight for what's right.
Click to expand...


Of course you're assuming that Google's decision has no effect on the stock price. What about potential investors (like me) that were disgusted by Google's caving in to the Chinese censors and decided not to buy any Google stock?
 
Well they are betting rightly or wrongly there will be far more investors who are morally flexible that will want to buy the stock if they start making money hands over fist like they expect
 
I fail to see how this is evil. They had two options. Provide some information or provide no information. More information is always better than less. Every little bit of information helps in the fight against oppression.
 
UserGoogol said:
I fail to see how this is evil. They had two options. Provide some information or provide no information. More information is always better than less. Every little bit of information helps in the fight against oppression.
Click to expand...

I am not sure it is evil...I think it is an interesting question. First, clearly, google does have a responsibility to its stockholders. Second, there is some value in providing some information services in a repressive society...and one that increasingly is relying on a volital communications technology like the Internet. It is doubtful that perfect control can be maintained, try though they might. However, is there a point where google crosses over? I mean, there was Yahoo actively complying with the Chinese government.

The question is: when does just business (maximizing for stockholders) run into morality? We look back now and wonder about companies that cooperated with the Nazis. Would it have been acceptable for google to cooperate with China when Moa was at his most repressive and millions were starving to death because of his policies?

Just pondering...
 
Companies would let us all die for a nickel if they could get away with it, so we need to stop waxing philosophic about their moral obligations. Legal ones are the only ones they will ever live up to.
 
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