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Good resources debunking the "Roswell crash"?

I am actually following the advice of an old saying.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.

If they were to activate a stasis forcefield after an unprovoked attack by barbarous humans, you would want a secure way of releasing the forcefield once help arrived. Ergo (whatever that means), you would still leave it partially transparent to allow a shut down signal to enter.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence, does not apply to conspiracies. Because the first evidence will always be institutionally refuted. Only by a thorough investigation can reasonable doubt be removed.

Secrecy is a tactic for abusing power, good intentions pave the way to Texas.
 
DeathDart said:
I am actually following the advice of an old saying.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.

If they were to activate a stasis forcefield after an unprovoked attack by barbarous humans, you would want a secure way of releasing the forcefield once help arrived. Ergo (whatever that means), you would still leave it partially transparent to allow a shut down signal to enter.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence, does not apply to conspiracies. Because the first evidence will always be institutionally refuted. Only by a thorough investigation can reasonable doubt be removed.

Secrecy is a tactic for abusing power, good intentions pave the way to Texas.
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and don't count your chickens if you haven't got any!
 
DeathDart said:
I am actually following the advice of an old saying.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.

If they were to activate a stasis forcefield after an unprovoked attack by barbarous humans, you would want a secure way of releasing the forcefield once help arrived. Ergo (whatever that means), you would still leave it partially transparent to allow a shut down signal to enter.

Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence, does not apply to conspiracies. Because the first evidence will always be institutionally refuted. Only by a thorough investigation can reasonable doubt be removed.

Secrecy is a tactic for abusing power, good intentions pave the way to Texas.
Click to expand...
Okay, let's change the rules to fit our beliefs, shall we? :rolleyes:
 
RKOwens4 said:
A few years back I created a series of YouTube videos called "9/11 Debunked", which became really popular (3.7 million total views), and I get people messaging me all the time telling me I should make a series of videos debunking this or that (usually it's the moon landing "hoax" or the JFK assassination "conspiracy"). But I'm actually more interested in debunking the conspiracy theory that an alien spacecraft crashed outside Roswell in 1947 and that the government has covered it up. It'll probably be a while (months) before I actually start making the videos, as right now I'm still in the research stage, trying to learn as much about it all as possible. I've come across a few good resources debunking the UFO myth, but almost all of them try to debunk the entire UFO history in general and thus only have a few brief articles on the Roswell case in particular. I plan to focus on Roswell since it's the most popular (and, in a sense, the "original").

Does anyone know of any good resources I should look at (websites, books, documentaries)?
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You cannot debunk truth. The alien Carossel that fell to earth taught us how to make the merry go rounds and I still dont understand why the Government tries to cover this up.
 
What are your takes on Annie Jacobsen's chapter on Roswell in her book Area 51? Is she a respected journalist within the Mil/Ind complex? It is upsetting wooers because it discounts a lot of Roswell "dogma" and skeptics are upset as well due to it's implications. She states the within records and programs of the AEC is where Roswell secrets lie.
Exerpt
It is a program undertaken by five EG&G engineers at Area 51. This program involved the Roswell crash remains and predated the development of the original CIA facility, currently called Area 51, which was built by Richard Bissell beginning in 1955. Area 51 is named as such not because it was a randomly chosen quadrant, as has often been presumed, but because the 1947 crash remains from Roswell, New Mexico, were sent from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base out to a secret spot in the Nevada
desert—in 1951.
The gypsies have a saying: You’re not really dead until the last person who knows you dies. Forinvestigative journalists it goes something like this: As long as there is an eyewitness willing to tell the truth, the truth can be known.
The flying craft that crashed in New Mexico, the myth of which has come to be known as the Roswell Incident, happened in 1947, sixty-four years before the publication of this book. Everyone directly involved in that incident—who acted on behalf of the government—is apparently dead. Like it does about Area 51, the U.S. government refuses to admit the Roswell crash ever happened, but it did—according to the seminal testimony of one man interviewed over the course of eighteen months for this book. He participated in the engineering project that came about as a result of the Roswell Incident. He was one of the elite engineers from EG&G who were tasked with the original Area 51 wicked engineering problem.
In July of 1947, Army intelligence spearheaded the efforts to retrieve the remains of the flying disc that crashed at Roswell. And as with other stories that have become the legends of Area 51, part of the conspiracy theory about Roswell has its origins in truth. The crash did reveal a disc, not a weather balloon, as has subsequently been alleged by the Air Force. And responders from the Roswell Army Air Field found not only a crashed craft, but also two crash sites, and they found bodies alongside the crashed craft.
These were not aliens. Nor were they consenting airmen. They were human guinea pigs. Unusually petite for pilots, they appeared to be children. Each was under five feet tall. Physically, the bodies of the aviators revealed anatomical conundrums. They were grotesquely deformed, but each in the same manner as the others. They had unusually large heads and abnormally shaped oversize eyes. One fact was clear: these
children, if that’s what they were, were not healthy humans. A second fact was shocking. Two of the child-size aviators were comatose but still alive. Everything related to the crash site was sent to Wright Field, later called Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in Ohio, where it all remained until 1951. That is when the evidence was packed up and transport to the Nevada Test Site. It was received, physically, by the elite group of EG&G engineers. The Atomic Energy Commission, not the Air Force and not the Central Intelligence Agency, was put in charge of the Roswell crash remains. According to its unusual charter, the Atomic Energy Commission was the organization best equipped to handle a secret that could never be declassified. The Atomic Energy Commission needed engineers they could trust to handle the work that was about to begin. For this, they looked to the most powerful defense contractor in the nation that no one had ever heard of—EG&G.
The operation would have no name, only a letter-number designation: S-4, or Sigma-Four.
The problem that the EG&G engineers would face would be highly complex, wide-ranging, without a definite formulation and with no set solution. This wicked problem was wholly without precedent. Solving it would undoubtedly have unintended consequences, because playing the engineering game would change the game. But there were two puzzles to solve, not just one. Two engineering mysteries for the elite group of EG&G engineers to unlock.
There was the crashed craft that had been sent by Stalin—with its Russian writing stamped, or embossed, in a ring around the inside of the craft. So far, the EG&G engineers were told, no one working on the project when it had been headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had been able to discern what made Stalin’s craft hover and fly. Not even the German Paperclip scientists who had been assigned to assist. So the crashed craft was job number one. Reverse engineer it, Vannevar Bush said. Take it apart and put it back together again. Figure out what made it fly.
But there was the second engineering problem to solve, the one involving the child-size aviators. To understand this, the men were briefed on what it was they were dealing with. They had to be. They were told that they, and they alone, had a need-to-know about what had happened to these humans before they were put in the craft and sent aloft. They were told that seeing the bodies would be a shocking and disturbing experience. Because two of the aviators were comatose but still alive, the men would have to transfer them into a Jell-O-like substance and stand them upright in two tubular tanks, attached to a life-support system. Sometimes, their mouths opened, and this gave the appearance of their trying to speak. Remember, the engineers were told, these humans are in a comatose state. They are unconscious; their bodies would never spark back to life.
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JCM said:
What are your takes on Annie Jacobsen's chapter on Roswell in her book Area 51? Is she a respected journalist within the Mil/Ind complex? It is upsetting wooers because it discounts a lot of Roswell "dogma" and skeptics are upset as well due to it's implications. She states the within records and programs of the AEC is where Roswell secrets lie.
Exerpt
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.
Jacobsen is naive to the point of embarrassingly naive.
Some of her book is factual.
This Roswell crap is just that, crap.
She was misled by a skilled ********ter.
"Popular Mechanics" this month looks at the book and the claims.
 
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Jacobsen goes whole hog with a single-sourced item. That's a good way to look like an idiot. Do you think Stalin would have sent his best technology over to the US as a red hearring, and less than two week after the first flying saucer reports? That's fast reaction time taken to the extreme. And for what reason?
 
with its Russian writing stamped, or embossed, in a ring around the inside of the craft.
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Stalin sends his super duper top secret spacecraft deeeeeep into US territory and he labels it in RUSSIAN?!
:D

So far, the EG&G engineers were told, no one working on the project when it had been headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had been able to discern what made Stalin’s craft hover and fly.
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And in the 64 years since, no one in the world of civilian aviation has been able to reproduce it either? Not to mention, in 1947, Soviet technology was about one step above steampunk.
:rolleyes:
 
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I Ratant said:
.
Jacobsen is naive to the point of embarrassingly naive.
Some of her book is factual.
This Roswell crap is just that, crap.
She was misled by a skilled ********ter.
"Popular Mechanics" this month looks at the book and the claims.
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That pretty much sums up my feelings on it.
 
JCM said:
What are your takes on Annie Jacobsen's chapter on Roswell in her book Area 51? Is she a respected journalist within the Mil/Ind complex? It is upsetting wooers because it discounts a lot of Roswell "dogma" and skeptics are upset as well due to it's implications. She states the within records and programs of the AEC is where Roswell secrets lie.
Exerpt
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Jacobsen's stuff was dealt with in this thread from back in May.

Suffice to say there appeared to be nothing other than a single source for any of the Roswell parts.
 
Tolls said:
Jacobsen's stuff was dealt with in this thread from back in May.

Suffice to say there appeared to be nothing other than a single source for any of the Roswell parts.
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Thanks I was looking for more information from JREF about this.
OCaptain said:
Marcel's son?
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I don't think so? Supposedly an EG&G engineer that worked in the 50s? Maybe from that 1946 Roswell yearbook she mentions?
 
OCaptain said:
Marcel's son?
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It's some techie I think, but it is also one person, and she has no other evidence...not even anything from Russia to show the soviets had anything even vaguely like this that could reach Roswell. Hence the reason it was quite quickly flagged as bollocks.
 
Tolls said:
It's some techie I think, but it is also one person, and she has no other evidence...not even anything from Russia to show the soviets had anything even vaguely like this that could reach Roswell. Hence the reason it was quite quickly flagged as bollocks.
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Oh, sorry. I thought you were referring to Roswell in general, not her particular explanation of it.
 
Peripherally, this months' Skeptic magazine has the results of a survey asking about demographics of believers/non-believers in the Roswell myths. Unsurprisingly, religious folks and people who never went to college believed more.
 
In the early 90s I got kicked out of a panel discussion at a convention for asking what caused the crash. If it was a spaceship from another planet that survived lightyears across interstellar space (dodging blackholes, gas giants, asteroids, comets and stars) did it get caught in powerlines in the desert?
 
CptColumbo said:
In the early 90s I got kicked out of a panel discussion at a convention for asking what caused the crash. If it was a spaceship from another planet that survived lightyears across interstellar space (dodging blackholes, gas giants, asteroids, comets and stars) did it get caught in powerlines in the desert?
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The safety record for UFOs is certainly not as good as your average New Guinea puddle jumper airline, is it?
 
Yeah I too noticed that these things crashed and burned on a regular basis

I also notice that they had no 'emergency' services, no rescue, no automated machines to assist them, nothing, no equipment, nothing.

Odd space travellers! LOL
 
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