Good night on H'pathy Forums

[Virgil]

we agree,


Daddy and I won't be moving to London for that job

do you want to move here and be our vet.


Virgil

 

[Rolfe]

Sorry, I saw that about the time you posted this. It must be the version I have on my home computer which is full. I'll upload that some time tonight.

Sorry, both copies I had of the calves thread were short. I must have been so keen to keep up with the Addison's one (which I think is still online!) that I didn't remember the calf one.

Exarch, you're version is now absolutely fine, and you're a public benefactor.

Virgil and Ipecac, thanks. Sorry to get in such a fuss about Barb, but I'm getting sick of being called a liar and accused of killing animals, when my entire adult life has been dedicated to doing the best I can for animals and the only lies I ever told even on H'pathy itself were small misdirections to prevent my identity from being discovered. (And Naturalhealth seems to get away with a blatantly false claim to be a doctor, but there you go!)

Really, Virgil, I'm much better at picking up the phone and telling other people what to do with their patients than doing it myself! (But I do wrestle cats something mean!)

Rolfe.

 

[anonimouse]

Snoopy seems genuinely upset. However, I don't have a lot of sympathy. To the best of my knowledge she is the author of this page here, which is permanently on display at H'pathy.

You can't go wrong choosing a medical professional that will accept "online cases".

 

[exarch]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Sorry, both copies I had of the calves thread were short. I must have been so keen to keep up with the Addison's one (which I think is still online!) that I didn't remember the calf one.

Exarch, you're version is now absolutely fine, and you're a public benefactor.

Knowing in advance there would probably be more threads like that, I decided to copy the h'pathy folder structure, (which means the relative path of all the scripts and images can remain the same, and at the same time I only need all the standard images once). It saves space, and it's expandable. I'm such a nerd

Actually, the reason I did it like that is because I was unable to save the calves-page, I had to view the source, and save that instead, which meant I had to get the images from other threads (like the Addison's thread).

Anyway, if any of you have copies of deleted threads, you can always send them to me for hosting (at least it will make me feel I'm contributing something to the skeptic cause )

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Really good presentation of the Hpathy forum threads exarch!

Rolfe, your post about why hpaths calling you down really touched me. I can't imagine being a doctor or vet and reading that crud that puts your profession down so much. I get purple just being a semi-educated layperson and reading the crap they post. That's why I can't go there. Like you said, they don't have a clue what is behind an actual education like yours.

I'd like to hear some of their explanations on some of the main bodies' systems, human and other animal. The feedback systems alone hold my fascination. I just hope you know what I'm rambling on about a bit (I'm very tired today).

 

[Ipecac]

By the way, I looked at most of the threads in question. At one point, someone, NaturalHealth aka Homeoskeptic I think, suggested a remedy at a 6c dose. She then said that this was fairly weak and if it didn't work, a 30c dose would be stronger.

Isn't this absolutely bass-ackwards? Doesn't a 30c does contain MUCH less (actually none) of the original chemical while a 6c dose is much less diluted and might theoretically still contain molecules of the original chemical?

 

[Psiload]

By the way, I looked at most of the threads in question. At one point, someone, NaturalHealth aka Homeoskeptic I think, suggested a remedy at a 6c dose. She then said that this was fairly weak and if it didn't work, a 30c dose would be stronger.

Isn't this absolutely bass-ackwards? Doesn't a 30c does contain MUCH less (actually none) of the original chemical while a 6c dose is much less diluted and might theoretically still contain molecules of the original chemical?

Welcome to the homeopathy bizarro world.

 

[Capsid]

Isn't this absolutely bass-ackwards? Doesn't a 30c does contain MUCH less (actually none) of the original chemical while a 6c dose is much less diluted and might theoretically still contain molecules of the original chemical?

This is how homeopathy works! The more diluted the remedy the more potent (energised) it becomes. I don't know how that observation was derived though.

 

[Pantastic]

By the way, I looked at most of the threads in question. At one point, someone, NaturalHealth aka Homeoskeptic I think, suggested a remedy at a 6c dose. She then said that this was fairly weak and if it didn't work, a 30c dose would be stronger.

Isn't this absolutely bass-ackwards? Doesn't a 30c does contain MUCH less (actually none) of the original chemical while a 6c dose is much less diluted and might theoretically still contain molecules of the original chemical?

Welcome to the magic land of homeopathy, where dilution of a substance increases its power to heal.

 

[BPSCG]

Welcome to the magic land of homeopathy, where dilution of a substance increases its power to heal.

Sounds like homeopathy belongs in George Orwell's 1984 world, where:
Ignorance is Strength
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Weaker is Stronger

 

[Ipecac]

Thanks.

I know that that's what they believe, I just never heard anyone claim it with a straight face before. Man, that's retarded.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Thanks.

I know that that's what they believe, I just never heard anyone claim it with a straight face before. Man, that's retarded.

Agreed. I think we need a smiley for when snigger so hard you blow coffee out your nostrils.

 

[exarch]

Originally posted by Pantastic
Welcome to the magic land of homeopathy, where dilution of a substance increases its power to heal.

In the magical fairyland of homeopathy, the more a substance has been handled and diluted, the more magic it has. It's all about ritual.

And for the record, a 12C dose is the one that crosses the Avogadro border, so a 6C is still pretty much certain to still contain at least some molecules.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Agreed. I think we need a smiley for when [you] sni**er so hard you blow coffee out your nostrils.

Oh, I see the board software has a problem with the word meaning a laughing snort and rhymes with jigger. A bit over-sensitive perhaps. Is that a fixed parameter or can I have my word back please?

 

[Rolfe]

Day before yesterday I was at a biochemistry meeting. The speaker was talking about free-T<SUB>4</SUB> measurements. We're getting down to some pretty low concentrations here, she said. For example, 1 pmol/l is, in that well-known SI unit, 0.003 g/swimming pool. (And she showed a picture of the swimming pool.)

I meant to work it out, how many molecules was that.
I think the molecular weight of thyroxine is 777 daltons. So one mole is 777g.
10<SUP>-5</SUP> moles is 0.00777g.
10<SUP>-5</SUP>/2.59 moles is 0.003g.
Answer, Avogadro's no. x (10<SUP>-5</SUP>/2.59)
(6.022 x 10<SUP>18</SUP>)/2.59

That is, 2.325 x 10<SUP>18</SUP>, or
2,325,096,525,096,525,097 molecules in the swimming pool.

Whatever size the swimming pool was, she didn't actually say. Still quite a few molecules though.

I don't know how to do that for a homoeopathic preparation, because I've no idea of the concentration of the mother tincture, and most of the remedies aren't pure compounds but mixtures of mashed-up plant and things like that, with their proteins and their DNA and their cell walls and stuff. But does anyone have any idea at all how many molecules of such a substance there might be in an average-sized swimming pool (or even in a 5 ml bottle), at a 6C dilution?

I suspect that there's still quite a void between the smallest concentrations of biologically-active substances we deal with, and even the "low-potency" homoeopathic remedies. Can anybody make a better job of the arithmetic?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, I see the board software has a problem with the word meaning a laughing snort and rhymes with jigger. A bit over-sensitive perhaps. Is that a fixed parameter or can I have my word back please?

It did it to me, on Cogreslab's thread, several weeks ago. And Exarch got it too, in TRSOTTTWND.

I think they could fix that, but I also think that they're unlikely to bother.

Now can you check my arithmetic above? If we take a guess at average molecular weight and concentration of mother tincture, what's 6C in SI units?

Rolfe.

 

[exarch]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Now can you check my arithmetic above? If we take a guess at average molecular weight and concentration of mother tincture, what's 6C in SI units?

All I know is, that if the original substance is 1/1, 6C is 1/1'000'000'000'000, or 1 in a thoudsand billion (American) or a round billion (British). I think that's still a higher concentration than your thyroxine.

 

[Rolfe]

What average molecular weight are you assuming for the remedy, and what concentration of the mother tincture? I don't think you can do it without estimates for these two factors.

Rolfe.

 

[gnome]

A thought...

Rolfe, I liked the point you made, that the policy you backed Snoopy into (Get a diagnosis), is contradictory to the idea of "see the homeopath first."

However, I think that point was buried in discussion of the way you phrased the bait in your sigline.

While I don't say you didn't have the right to put it the way you did, I feel that being overdramatic gave them ammunition to dodge the vice you were quite effectively squeezing them in already... whereas by making a less inflammatory comment you could have pressed the contradiction harder and they'd have no way to change the subject to your conduct or close the thread on those grounds...

Just my 2c...

 

[Rolfe]

Frankly, I expected them to close the thread within half an hour anyway! I think it only didn't happen because it was the 4th of July and JanZy wasn't online.

Discussions never go anywhere sensible with these guys. And giving Snoopy a real fright is arguably as good an outcome as anything.

Rolfe.