LostAngeles said:
Were the calves Stalined a bit ago? I could link to the thread about twenty minutes ago, but when I went to go reread it again, it seems to be gone.
Looks like it,
so here it is in its entirety;
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Student's Corner
_Hpathy Forums : Student's Corner
Topic: 7 week old young cows dying
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senconsult
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Posted: 29_June_04 at 23:56 | IP Logged
Hi
I have a farmer friend who is devastated by a recurrent problem of_ 7 week old cows coming down with a temperature, blood in the stools before getting a gushing white diarrhea, and a lot of them dying in the process.
antibiotics have been of no help.
any suggestions?
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 30_June_04 at 04:08 | IP Logged
Looking at this I would suggest that your friend tries
the remedy ARSENICUM ALBUM.
This remedy would cover the fever, with blood in the
stools and the copious white diarrhoea too.
Try putting 6c pelletts in the drinking water and
seeing if this helps. A 6c is quite a low dose, so it
may need a 30c.
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senconsult
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Posted: 30_June_04 at 08:33 | IP Logged
thank you for answering...
at this age, these young cows are getting 1.5 liter - 2 liter bottle feeding so many times a day..... 9 mini globules in a one only 2liter bottle?_ that ok...
thanks a lot for your help.
30c is already a one time dosage, i take it?
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 30_June_04 at 09:54 | IP Logged
Yes, that is fine.
30C is not a one off dose, but in an acute situation
such as this can be repeated as needed until
recovery.
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Rolfie
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Posted: 04_July_04 at 14:06 | IP Logged
Hi, H'pathy, this is Rolfe._ The real Rolfe, not the earlier cheap substitute.
I see that once more Naturalhealth (who is no more an MFHom than Bach is) has jumped into a thread and posted a remedy suggestion with virtually no case details._ This certainly seems to be to be a blatant breach of a couple of your rules._ I quote:
3. Homeopaths who reply to patient's queries should not throw medicines in the ring without having a proper case. Any person giving medical/homeopathic advice to anyone will have to give proper reasons for their selection of remedy and potency or their advice. Just saying “Take a dose of Belladona 30” or “Try a dose of Lycopodium 200” will not do. You will need to explain your remedy and potency selection (through reportorial rubrics and totality, excerpts from materia medicas or previous posts etc.). Also, if you disagree with someone’s suggestion, you can’t just say, “I don’t agree with this suggestion”. You will need to specify why you disagree. We intend that the discussion in the case discussion forum must be used to improve the knowledge of the patients and the homeopaths here. We will try to delete all such posts that do not confirm to this rule, even if the suggestions are correct.
4. Any person found suggesting combination medicines or multiple medicines or making suggestions without having proper case details is liable to receive suspension. All remedy and potency suggestions should be justifiable.
These rules seem eminently sensible to me._ As a vet, I must express my hope that you don't intend them to apply only to human patients, but that innocent animals will also be protected from such incompetence._ Not to mention the fact that as a UK resident Naturalhealth is breaking the law (namely, the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966) in attempting to prescribe for an animal when she is not a qualified veterinary surgeon._ And the fact that should be obvious to anyone with any medical knowledge at all that even knowing no more about the case, it's obvious the one thing that has to be done is to discontinue the milk feeding and get the calves immediately on to oral rehydration therapy._ However, Naturalhealth simply suggests putting a few sugar pills into the milk._ This is not good, by any standards._ I trust that Naturalhealth's well-deserved suspension will not be long delayed.
Love and kisses,
Rolfe.
PS._ By the way, although I didn't post it, I believe that the point of this thread was to see what Naturalhealth would really do with a case involving a non-individualised group of calves with diarrhoea._ You see, over on Randiland, she objected to a well-designed study in which a group of diarrhoeic calves which only got a placebo got better slightly quicker than the other half of the group who were treated homoeopathically, in the following terms:
"I have not read the calf diarrhea paper at all, however, I would wonder whether Podophylum is in any way the right remedy for this anyway. A test like this will never work, as the remedy has not been individualised at all and all the calves may need a different remedy to the one given. Idividualisation. That is what homeopathy is all about."
Well, didn't she just rise to the bait!_ The Podophyllum paper (
http://www.slu.se/forskning/amne/vetmed/vettidn/2001/SVT 1 4%20-01%201.pdf) has a lot of detail about the animals, even some photographs._ But no, "not enough individualisation."_ Then when she thinks she's on safe home ground, she sees fit to prescribe on a two-line history that doesn't even tell us whether the calves are with their mothers, sucking, or separated from them on artificial feeding; whether they are indoors or out; what differences can be seen between the ones that died and the ones that survived the illness...._ ARSENICUM ALBUM, regardless!
Nice one, Naturalhealth!
By the way, this thread has now also been saved, so delete it at your leisure.
Edited for spelling.
Edited by Rolfie on 04_July_04 at 15:32
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 02:27 | IP Logged
Just to let you all know, this post has come from the
trouble makers at Randiland and is deliberate.
The question that was posted has come from a
paper that was on HOMEOPATHY where calves with
diarrhoea were treated with the homeopathic remedy
PODOPHYLUM.
This question is therefore nul and void and is a
complete waste of time. Anyone can see this paper
and look it up and see what these calves were
treated with.
This is what the Randipathetic spend their time
doing then is it? They seem to have so much time to
waste as well.
If you want proper advice on the homeopathic
treatment of animals, then I suggest that you post
more of your questions on the Animal board and I
am sure that Wim would be only too pleased to help
you out that is always assuming that you have a
genuine question. Not.
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The RealMonkey
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 09:51 | IP Logged
The point NH is your non-homeopathic prescribing.
I do not know whether the questioner is legit or a troll. If they are
legit then you are in breach of UK law (remember, even JanZy has
acknowledged my eye for liability issues), but even if they are not,
you answered on the basis that it was a legitimate question and
revealed a deeply non-homeopathic reaching for an instant non-
individualised remedy on the basis of a two-line history. The irony
really is that a conventional vet would have taken a properly holistic
approach to the problem and you have displayed the worst kind of
knee-jerk prescribing that homeopaths accuse real medicine of
perpetrating. If you want to see 'holism' embodied, speak to a good
farm vet, it really is what they do.
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doctorleela
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 10:26 | IP Logged
I thought you trolls were restricted to the scientific forum, now you have begun to infest us again all over the place?
Save whatever you like in your hard disc - is that a threat to us?
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 11:49 | IP Logged
What an idiot you really are.
I was giving homeopathic advice only and nothing
else and there is nothing unhomeopathic about the
way any of us practices.
Perhaps you need to learn a thing or two about
homeopathy before you start coming here and trying
to discuss it, badly, thinking that you know a thing or
two.
You really don't at all.
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The RealMonkey
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 13:16 | IP Logged
Naturalhealth wrote:
I was giving homeopathic advice only and
nothing
else and there is nothing unhomeopathic about the
way any of us practices.
And where exactly is the individualisation, indeed where exactly is
your attempt to obtain a fuller history? When is indiviualisation
necessary? When you want to criticise a paper whose results you
don't like. When is individualisation unnecessary? When you think no
one is looking.
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 13:32 | IP Logged
Well, if you are so interested in that aspect of
homeopathy, then I can recommend some very good
books that you can read.
You can also consult Wim who treats all kinds of
animals with homeopathy on a daily basis. He is
somewhat of an expert in this area.
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The RealMonkey
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 13:59 | IP Logged
Naturalhealth wrote:
Well, if you are so interested in that aspect
of
homeopathy, then I can recommend some very good
books that you can read.
What aspect of homeopathy? The logically inconsistent aspect? The
being caught out trying to have it both ways aspect?
Face it NHCoraHS you've been caught out, just as you have been with
your
various claims over homeopathic and medical qualifications you
don't have. Why do you think the mods here don't think you are a
homeopath? I suggest you re-read the Admin posts. You can't
maintain the pretence of being as a doctor, perhaps you're a
homeopath-wannabe...at all.
Before you go all injured innocence on us, can I just remind everyone
else that you told bare-faced lies about not posting here at
Hpathy...at all.
(Edited to add: "Although I have looked at the Hpathy forum, I have
never posted there myself, but am now thinking about registering.
When I looked initially, there were lots of 'trolls' posting there and
the whole thing seemed to disintegrate into a slanging match, so I
was put off. Now the discussions are more focussed on helping
people homeopathically, I may well decide to go and register there."
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/
showthread.php?s=&postid=1870508197&highlight=hpathy#post18
70508197)
Just in case Snoopy is reading this. NHCoraHS does raise my index of
suspicion about the level of wilful deception in the homeopathic
community.
Edited by The RealMonkey on 05_July_04 at 14:04
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Naturalhealth
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 14:25 | IP Logged
Well, I have to say that what I did at Randiland was
totally and utterly deliberate and I was playing you at
your own game as you have done here so many
times. I admit to 'trolling'. I was giving you a taste of
your own homeopathic medicine.___HAPPY NOW?!!!!!!
As for the rest, no lie at all and I really do not care
what anyone thinks either, least of all you are your
little troll friends from Randipathetics!!!
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The RealMonkey
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 15:21 | IP Logged
Naturalhealth wrote:
Well, I have to say that what I did at
Randiland was
totally and utterly deliberate and I was playing you at
your own game as you have done here so many
times. I admit to 'trolling'. I was giving you a taste of
your own homeopathic medicine.
Except you were spotted and identified almost immediately under
both HS and Cora identities. That's not trolling
As for the rest, no lie at all
"at all"? Of course not. We believe you "doctor".
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Georgianna
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Posted: 05_July_04 at 19:11 | IP Logged
Okay.....whoa.....hold the presses!_ Quote *Rolfie* post on 4 July......."As a vet, I must express my hope that ......"._ What?_ As a VET?_ No kidding._ And your practice is so limited that you have this kind of time to waste?_ Not one vet I know has that kind of spare time._ If you indeed are a vet, though obviously not a busy one, it does very well explain a great deal._ Allopathic vets are very concerned about patients moving away from_practices that they know_have endangered their animals for so long and that would be cause for your attacking that which threatens your income.
_
As a wise person once said, "follow the money"._ Homeopathy is less expensive than allopathy, eliminating multiple, multiple visits and multiple, multiple vaccinations/drugs and then more visits to *cure* the diseases caused by the multiple vaccinations/drugs......all very lucrative to vets and very damaging to pets.
_
So, where do you practice veterinary medicine, Rolfie?_ What homeopathic vets are challenging your income in your backyard?!
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exarch
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Posted: 06_July_04 at 03:25 | IP Logged
Georgianna wrote:
Okay.....whoa.....hold the presses!_ Quote *Rolfie* post on 4 July......."As a vet, I must express my hope that ......"._ What?_ As a VET?_ No kidding._ And your practice is so limited that you have this kind of time to waste?_ Not one vet I know has that kind of spare time._ If you indeed are a vet, though obviously not a busy one, it does very well explain a great deal._ Allopathic vets are very concerned about patients moving away from_practices that they know_have endangered their animals for so long and that would be cause for your attacking that which threatens your income.
_
As a wise person once said, "follow the money"._ Homeopathy is less expensive than allopathy, eliminating multiple, multiple visits and multiple, multiple vaccinations/drugs and then more visits to *cure* the diseases caused by the multiple vaccinations/drugs......all very lucrative to vets and very damaging to pets.
_
So, where do you practice veterinary medicine, Rolfie?_ What homeopathic vets are challenging your income in your backyard?!
_
Actually, Rolfe isn't a vet treating animals, but rather one dissecting animals figuring out how they died._Some of those dead animals come from homeopaths who treated a perfectly curable disease with homeopathy, without much success, until the animals got so distraught they had to be put down.
Rolfe is in no danger losing business because of the homeopaths, quite the contrary.
_
Follow the money indeed, and see who offers the best cure compared to the price of the remedy_...
_
Edited by exarch on 06_July_04 at 03:25
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Naturalhealth
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Well, no, you have not rebutted the question at all.
That really does seem to explain a lot about Rolfe
then doesn't it?!!!
By the way, this is just natural progression in life and
nothing whatsoever to do with homeopathy. Things
die eventually and this includes both people and
animals. Nothing you can do about that one. Not
even modern medicine I am sorry to say. That is why
undertakers will never be out of business.
Homeopathy works very well on animals and helps
them greatly. I have given my dog remedies from the
word go when he has needed them and he is doing
great. A very small price to pay for the difference
between the cost of a remedy and the astronomical
amount that vets charge for antibiotics and steroids
that are unneccesary treatments. They seem to try at
every opportunity to give these unnecessarily so that
they can charge for them whether they are warranted
or not. Mostly not, but with terrible side effects. They
just like to line their pockets!!!
Hope you guys are off to line your pockets and kill
some more animals for your evil steroids. At least if
you are doing that you are not here and that has to
be a blessing in disguise!!!
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"
, so I should still have the last bit I posted before it got unceremoniously transformed into nothing but zeroes. It's at work though, so I'll have to look for it tomorrow.
.
