Golden Rice Finally Released in Bangladesh

[crescent]

Golden Rice Finally Released in Bangladesh

The consortium has one overriding rule – any crops that result from their project are to be given – for free – to poor farmers. How is giving free seeds to farmers taking away their rights? This also perpetuates the – farmers saving their own seeds – mythology. When farmers have the opportunity to buy seeds every year, they generally choose to do so, because it is a massive time and resource saver. Saving seeds is a lot of work. It’s cheaper to just buy them. And in this case – they are just being given the seeds. Even if farmers want to save their seeds, they can go right ahead and do so. No one is stopping them or taking away their “sovereignty.”

Another lie is that golden rice doesn’t work.

I already debunked this bit of nonsense:

The FDA has specific rules for labeling of approved food products. In order to claim that a food is fortified with a specific vitamin, it has to include a specific amount based on typical American consumption. But the typical southeast Asian eats 25 times the rice of the typical American. So the amount of beta-carotene in the golden rice is not sufficient, given levels of consumption, to be significant for an average American, but is significant for a child growing up in southeast Asia with Vitamin A deficiency.

Rice was targeted because it is a staple crop for half the world, including much of the world that is poor and undernourished – which does not include the US.

When I was a Peace Corps Volunteer, Vitamin A deficiency was still a problem. One of the side projects they allowed us to do was to encourage vegetable growing, although this was not limited to those high in beta-carotene, the gist of it was still to help address deficiencies arising from a diet heavy in rice, wheat, and lentils with little else. I remember that carrots and yams were few and far in-between at the village markets.

I think I remember nurses giving kids a drop of a Vitamin A solution on Polio day (a day when parents are encouraged to get theirs kids a polio vaccine).

 

[William Parcher]

I have to criticize you for your OP style.

Golden rice is a topic because it is controversial. It is controversial because it is a genetically modified organism (GMO). Nowhere in your post do you mention this. It requires opening the article to see why the hell anyone would be talking about golden rice.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

What do the yields look like? The problem up until now was never the fact it is a GMO. GMO eggplant with Bt trait has been available in Bangladesh for quite a while now. The problem with golden rice was always that either it produced too little Beta Carotene, or if it produced enough to meet daily requirements, it caused metabolic meltdown in the rice itself, dramatically reducing yields.

Bt eggplant improving lives in Bangladesh

Goodbye to Golden Rice? GM Trait Leads to Drastic Yield Loss and “Metabolic Meltdown”

I would be more interested in yield numbers for this release than a bunch of conspiracy theory propaganda about "anti-GMO" forces causing the delay. So do you have better information on that? Otherwise it is much smarter for the farmer to simply plant higher yielding rice varieties and grow some other local crop that contains Beta carotene and other important vitamins in the freed up acreage. Sweet potatoes being one. Those eggplant being another. Any number of local greens being a third. Almost all fruits and vegetables have naturally occurring levels of vitamin A in some form or another well over what is needed for health.

 

[crescent]

...conspiracy theory propaganda about "anti-GMO" forces causing the delay. So do you have better information on that?

I don't know about the yields - but in the past, some field trials have been destroyed in the past due to anti-GMO issues:

Activists Destroy 'Golden Rice' Field Trial

I was not familiar with the metabolic meltdown issue. Live and learn, the forum has value that way.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

I don't know about the yields - but in the past, some field trials have been destroyed in the past due to anti-GMO issues:

Activists Destroy 'Golden Rice' Field Trial

I was not familiar with the metabolic meltdown issue. Live and learn, the forum has value that way.

Well of course there are anti-GMO people out there. And Greenpeace is well known for their skill in propaganda.

So it is my bad for not being more clear. I was objecting to some of the language and the overall bias in the article you used in the OP.

Of course the sides are so diametrically opposed and the rhetoric so passionate, it's really hard to find objective information regarding GMOs.

Anyway if you are interested in the topic a new very critically important GMO is currently in the approval process and needs public support.

SUNY ESF researchers growing 10,000 blight-resistant American chestnut trees

Oh and BTW I also found out about the chestnuts here too! So I agree about the education part.

 

[Wayward son]

if it produced enough to meet daily requirements, it caused metabolic meltdown in the rice itself, dramatically reducing yields.

LOL.

I would be more interested in yield numbers for this release than a bunch of conspiracy theory propaganda about "anti-GMO" forces causing the delay.

1) No variety would be commercialized if it resulted in a decreased yield.
2) You claim to not be interested in conspiracy theory propaganda while linking to a conspiracy theory propaganda site run by a couple of complete loons and while repeating pseudo-science claims.

Otherwise it is much smarter for the farmer to simply plant higher yielding rice varieties and grow some other local crop that contains Beta carotene and other important vitamins in the freed up acreage. Sweet potatoes being one. Those eggplant being another. Any number of local greens being a third. Almost all fruits and vegetables have naturally occurring levels of vitamin A in some form or another well over what is needed for health.

This let them eat claim mantra doesn't stand up. The problem with the idea that they should just plant some local greens, or fruits, or vegetables, or eggplant is that it doesn't store long term like rice, and getting those poorest of the poor beta carotene for a couple weeks of the year was not the goal.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

LOL.



1) No variety would be commercialized if it resulted in a decreased yield.
2) You claim to not be interested in conspiracy theory propaganda while linking to a conspiracy theory propaganda site run by a couple of complete loons and while repeating pseudo-science claims.

d'oh now you get it! Completely unfit as a commercial variety even after all those years developement, yet this golden rice still used by propagandists as the poster child of GMOs. Completely BS.

You want a commercial GMO that saved an industry, then maybe look at GMO papaya. Golden rice would be an abject failure even if no one was anti-GMO on the planet.

This let them eat claim mantra doesn't stand up. The problem with the idea that they should just plant some local greens, or fruits, or vegetables, or eggplant is that it doesn't store long term like rice, and getting those poorest of the poor beta carotene for a couple weeks of the year was not the goal.

And yet when golden rice failed in most every other country it was tried, places like Philippines still managed to reduce or eliminate Vit A deficiency anyway.....go figure.

 

[Wayward son]

d'oh now you get it! Completely unfit as a commercial variety even after all those years development

I wouldn't think that it would be possible for someone who claims to be a farmer to know less about plant breeding than your average high school student, but you clearly do.

The traits are bred into commercial varieties. As almost every single crop variety has been bred for maximum yields for generations, it is not uncommon that when new traits are inserted (through any method) into a commercial variety that it results in undesired effects - such as loss of yield.

In this case the loons who you promote ran with a single example of that happening because they are loons and they understand that their audience is too stupid to understand that they are being duped.

Like every crop developed or altered through any method the new varieties that don't have yield losses or other negative effects will be commercialized (as is happening with golden rice) and the ones that do are discarded (although often studied to learn more about why).

yet this golden rice still used by propagandists as the poster child of GMOs. Completely BS.

You want a commercial GMO that saved an industry, then maybe look at GMO papaya. Golden rice would be an abject failure even if no one was anti-GMO on the planet.

Golden rice has been held back somewhat by difficulties in breeding rice, but mostly because of the anti-GMO movement. This didn't happen with GMO papaya because American farmers were not going to have their livelihoods destroyed by a bunch of anti-science crackpots. But the world's poorest farmers and children are easy victims.

And yet when golden rice failed in most every other country it was tried, places like Philippines still managed to reduce or eliminate Vit A deficiency anyway.....go figure.

Vitamin A deficiency has been increasing significantly in the Philippines (from 15% in 2008 to more than 20% by 2013. That is millions of children in the Philippines who have been harmed by Western anti-science zealots. You don't hear about that on the conspiracy pseudoscience websites you promote because they don't care about the lives of poor children.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

I wouldn't think that it would be possible for someone who claims to be a farmer to know less about plant breeding than your average high school student, but you clearly do.

The traits are bred into commercial varieties. As almost every single crop variety has been bred for maximum yields for generations, it is not uncommon that when new traits are inserted (through any method) into a commercial variety that it results in undesired effects - such as loss of yield.

In this case the loons who you promote ran with a single example of that happening because they are loons and they understand that their audience is too stupid to understand that they are being duped.

Like every crop developed or altered through any method the new varieties that don't have yield losses or other negative effects will be commercialized (as is happening with golden rice) and the ones that do are discarded (although often studied to learn more about why).

You are just digging yourself deeper, as I have actually worked for seed research companies and helped develop test cull etc.. thousands of varieties of corn soy and tomatoes. So try something else besides arguing from ignorance. Golden rice is a dog. The yields are ridiculously low and so far after all these years still no commercially viable strains are available. It's even approved for use in USA but the commercial yield in the US? 0.000% That's because it sucks and your defense of it is ridiculous.

Golden rice has been held back somewhat by difficulties in breeding rice, but mostly because of the anti-GMO movement. This didn't happen with GMO papaya because American farmers were not going to have their livelihoods destroyed by a bunch of anti-science crackpots. But the world's poorest farmers and children are easy victims.

That BS laying the blame of Golden Rice on others that have no ability to direct the breeding at all. The breeders of Golden Rice have failed in their goals, simple as that.

No doubt those goals were of the highest philanthropic intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

On the other hand, like I asked originally. Do you have some new variety that both increases yields and Vit A? Yes or no?

Vitamin A deficiency has been increasing significantly in the Philippines (from 15% in 2008 to more than 20% by 2013. That is millions of children in the Philippines who have been harmed by Western anti-science zealots. You don't hear about that on the conspiracy pseudoscience websites you promote because they don't care about the lives of poor children.

" We focus on the first two interventions as those with widest impact, and most comparable to GR. Supplementation with vA capsules is now widely practiced in many countries, and USAID has supported supplementation programs in Nepal, Indonesia, and the Philippines (USAID, 2002b). Once the retinol in the capsules is stored in the liver, it is excreted slowly and can sustain vA requirements for 4–6 months (De la Cuadra, 2000 ). Thus, semiannual distribution is feasible and is the preferred method because it reduces the labor costs associated with distribution." Golden Rice: What Role Could it Play in Alleviation of Vitamin A Deficiency?

Funny you use old stats. vA capsules are free and available to every child in the Philippines. The project is fully funded and fully stocked. the only issue remaining is a few places where there are not even any roads. Places like that it is even MORE difficult to ship in golden rice than vitamin capsules! That's assuming you actually could get a decent yield out of it, which you cant.

And of course there are more reasons too. The Vitamin A in the Golden rice does not store well and even when fresh is not enough to reach RDA even if all you eat is 100% Golden rice every meal every day.

"Assuming 100 percent of rice consumed in the United States is replaced with GR2E rice, IRRI used
current dietary rice intake (11.8 kg per capita annually) and the highest value of ǃ-carotene measured in
samples of milled GR2E rice carotene. IRRI estimated the potential dietary exposure to ǃ-carotene from GR2E rice to be
approximately 0.24 mg/day; this translates to approximately one tenth the current daily ǃ-carotene
consumption in the adult population, from all other food sources. IRRI acknowledged that it expects the
actual dietary intakes to be lower given (1) that it is unlikely that all rice in the diet would be substituted
with GR2E rice and (2) that ǃ-carotene levels in food containing GR2E rice would decline over time due to storage, processing, and cooking. " FDA Biotechnology Notification File No. 000158

 

[Wayward son]

You are just digging yourself deeper, as I have actually worked for seed research companies and helped develop test cull etc.. thousands of varieties of corn soy and tomatoes. So try something else besides arguing from ignorance. Golden rice is a dog. The yields are ridiculously low and so far after all these years still no commercially viable strains are available. It's even approved for use in USA but the commercial yield in the US? 0.000% That's because it sucks and your defense of it is ridiculous.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

First of all golden rice only went through the approval process in the US for one reason and one reason only, to make it easier, faster and cheaper for other countries approve it who were being intimidated by anti-GMO groups. There was never any intentions of being available for growing in the US, as there is zero need for it and it wouldn't make any sense.

Second, we already know that the yields of the golden rice variety are the same as the parental variety based on the field trials.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

That BS laying the blame of Golden Rice on others that have no ability to direct the breeding at all. The breeders of Golden Rice have failed in their goals, simple as that.

Anti-GMO groups know what they have done. They have been proud to talk about it.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Funny you use old stats.

No I didn't. I am using all the most recent stats from the UN and Unicef. You are not. VAD in the Philippines is listed as severe. It is at more than 20% and has been rising throughout the 21st century.

And of course there are more reasons too. The Vitamin A in the Golden rice does not store well and even when fresh is not enough to reach RDA even if all you eat is 100% Golden rice every meal every day.

"Assuming 100 percent of rice consumed in the United States is replaced with GR2E rice, IRRI used
current dietary rice intake (11.8 kg per capita annually)……….

Per capita rice consumption in the Philippines is more than 10 times that.
Carotene levels in all foods decline after harvesting, but that decline is far smaller and slower in golden rice than in almost any other food. Same goes for cooking.
Golden rice doesn't have to bring children to the RDA, supplements don't either, and despite widespread supplement programs VAD remains high. Those programs are also expensive and the money could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[bruto]

Wayward son, passionate disagreement aside, your argument is getting pretty close to reportable personal attack.

This is a pretty interesting topic, though so far I see little in the way of references to back up either side of the argument. Keep it civil, please, so we can learn something.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

You are a tremendous idiot. ...
Your lies are pathological.

Oh really? Is that assessment as science based as your BS about Golden Rice? As typical I must endure insults from people with no references or citations at all, and yet I provided plenty of good respectable references for everything I have said. So who's telling lies and got caught?

In fact the best you have been capable of providing is that at least 6 years ago there remained a problem, yet you have no evidence whatsoever your proposed solution would even help any at all.

Not only are you a cad, you can't even back up your position. And when shown how wrong you actually are, you fall back on more insults because you got squat.

 

[rjh01]

Suggest anyone interested in the subject of Golden Rice google it. They will find far more reliable information than what is contained in this thread.

 

[casebro]

Suggest anyone interested in the subject of Golden Rice google it. They will find far more reliable information than what is contained in this thread.

Upthread, GRE2 was mentioned, is that the strain being OK'd in the OP?

 

[casebro]

And is the real problem that like in the First world, 3rd world countries have gone too high carb? Not enough lard- vA is one of the fat soluble ones. A-D-E-K pills, if the people can't get UN "Commodity Salmon Croquettes".

What changed in their diets? Maybe Palm oil being grown instead of fruit trees, palm oil being exported to 1st world countries? So the people have jobs instead of a nutritional diet? Soy sauce is cheaper than fish sauce made from minnows, that competed with rice production?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

And is the real problem that like in the First world, 3rd world countries have gone too high carb? Not enough lard- vA is one of the fat soluble ones. A-D-E-K pills, if the people can't get UN "Commodity Salmon Croquettes".

What changed in their diets? Maybe Palm oil being grown instead of fruit trees, palm oil being exported to 1st world countries? So the people have jobs instead of a nutritional diet? Soy sauce is cheaper than fish sauce made from minnows, that competed with rice production?

Has anything actually changed in their diets, or have they just been nutritionally poor for many years? Poor people surviving off nutritionally poor monoculture is not a new problem, but a long standing problem that golden rice hopes to address.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Upthread, GRE2 was mentioned, is that the strain being OK'd in the OP?

I don't have the answer to this. I actually asked about if they solved this with a new variety.

What I do know is that the theory was that they would do the initial gene splices (last I heard it was a total of three) on a low yielding japonica rice (O. sativa subsp. japonica) and then back cross it with locally adapted indica rice (O. sativa subsp. indica) in each area it is grown.

The genes were carefully designed to only be expressed in the grains and not the leaves since it would cause disruptions in the plants metabolic pathways if expressed in leaves.

However, when backcrossed an unintended emergent property of the system caused the genes to be expressed in the leaves anyway. This turned out to be the primary reason yields did not meet expectations and the varieties kept failing. Either plenty of vit A and stunted growth, or if good yields, limited Vit A.

IIRC Syngenta attempted to fix this problem by substituting a corn gene for one of the Tulip genes originally used. It got better, but how much better? Did the improvement last when backcrossed into the locally adapted indica cultivars?

They had huge difficulties with that. I don't know if this new approved use of golden rice for Bangladesh is before or after this backcrossing.

IF after and IF the yields problem was solved, and IF the locals take to the new strain, then happy days.

But in all honesty I think the whole fiasco with Golden Rice was at its beginning a solution looking for a problem, rather than the ideal solution to the real problem, poverty.

 

[Segnosaur]

I have to criticize you for your OP style.

Golden rice is a topic because it is controversial. It is controversial because it is a genetically modified organism (GMO). Nowhere in your post do you mention this. It requires opening the article to see why the hell anyone would be talking about golden rice.

This is a science sub-forum on a skeptics board. There is a pretty good chance that the majority of readers are familiar with golden rice and recognize that where there may be 'controversy', such controversy is not rooted in the science itself but in the public perception of it.

Thus, talking about the GMO nature of golden rice is something that may not need to be brought up.

 

[Segnosaur]

What do the yields look like?...The problem with golden rice was always that either it produced too little Beta Carotene, or if it produced enough to meet daily requirements

Technically it doesn't have to "meet daily requirements" to be of benefit. Providing even SOME of the the needed Vitamin A will be of benefit in places where there is no source.

...it caused metabolic meltdown in the rice itself, dramatically reducing yields.

Goodbye to Golden Rice? GM Trait Leads to Drastic Yield Loss and “Metabolic Meltdown”

From: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/...crop-greenpeace-hates-and-humanitarians-love/
In 2014, IRRI reported that field trials revealed the most advanced version of Golden Rice at that time, GR2R, showed a lower yield compared to its conventional equivalent.... To remedy this, IRRI initiated new breeding programs in 2014 to develop high-yielding versions of Golden Rice. Results from confined field trials (CFTs), which took place from October 2014 to July 2017, showed no unintended effects of the GR2E variety on agronomic performance, yield, and grain quality.

So at one point lower yields were an issue, but it looks like they've overcome the problem.

Otherwise it is much smarter for the farmer to simply plant higher yielding rice varieties and grow some other local crop that contains Beta carotene and other important vitamins in the freed up acreage. Sweet potatoes being one. Those eggplant being another. Any number of local greens being a third. Almost all fruits and vegetables have naturally occurring levels of vitamin A in some form or another well over what is needed for health.

The problem is that the type of environmental conditions and land needed to grow rice is often very different than the type of conditions to grow those other crops. Rice needs very wet soil. Sweet potatoes and eggplants need well drained soil. Its not likely that a subsistence farmer working on a small plot of land will have both types of soil conditions available.

Vitamin A deficiency has been a problem for a long time. Its amazing that whenever Golden rice is brought up, people jump in and say "what about getting farmers to grow other stuff", as if its a solution that has never been thought of before.

 

[Segnosaur]

"We focus on the first two interventions as those with widest impact, and most comparable to GR. Supplementation with vA capsules is now widely practiced in many countries, and USAID has supported supplementation programs...
...

Funny you use old stats. vA capsules are free and available to every child in the Philippines.

Technically the capsules aren't free... they are paid for as a form of foreign aid. The problem is:
- Not all areas of the world have such benefit. Many farmers live in areas where outside aid is unavailable for political or other reasons.
- The need for aid organizations to purchase and distribute those capsules diverts resources that could in theory be used for other purposes. Use golden rice, you don't need the capsules, and the money saved can be used for other critical purposes

The project is fully funded and fully stocked. the only issue remaining is a few places where there are not even any roads. Places like that it is even MORE difficult to ship in golden rice than vitamin capsules!

Ummm... no. The point of Golden rice is not to grown it and then ship it in to other areas. The point of golden rice is to provide the seeds and let farmers in those areas grow, harvest, and replant as necessary. No need to provide outside shipments of golden rice.

(And keep in mind that many areas where famine exists, MOST food would have to be shipped in from the outside anyways.)

And of course there are more reasons too. The Vitamin A in the Golden rice does not store well...

Ummm... reference?

...and even when fresh is not enough to reach RDA even if all you eat is 100% Golden rice every meal every day.

Irrelevant. Even if golden rice doesn't provide 100% of the vitamin A requirement, even a partial amount is preferable to none.

"Assuming 100 percent of rice consumed in the United States is replaced with GR2E rice, IRRI used
current dietary rice intake (11.8 kg per capita annually) and the highest value of ǃ-carotene measured in
samples of milled GR2E rice carotene. IRRI estimated the potential dietary exposure to ǃ-carotene from GR2E rice to be
approximately 0.24 mg/day; this translates to approximately one tenth the current daily ǃ-carotene
consumption in the adult population, from all other food sources. IRRI acknowledged that it expects the
actual dietary intakes to be lower given (1) that it is unlikely that all rice in the diet would be substituted
with GR2E rice[/quote]
Why?

If you're a subsistence farmer, you're not likely to bother cultivating multple strains of rice on your property.

and (2) that ǃ-carotene levels in food containing GR2E rice would decline over time due to storage, processing, and cooking. "

Yet recent tests have shown that cooked golden rice does act as a source of vitamin A. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/89/6/1776/4596817