Gold-Digging African Children

[DC]

How so? Change has to start somewhere, and your whingeing about fair-trade won't do anything at all. These conditions will not improve unless the region as a whole becomes stable and adopts concepts such as "worker's rights" and abolishes child labor. The impetus is on them to institute the changes. You can't find another source on the planet Earth for coltan that large. If a western company were to buy the mining operation outright, and run it in accordance with western notions of child labor, they would be put out of business by market demand for cheaper components provided by rival mines who still used cheap child labor. Either that, or they'd be killed.

I'm not the one spouting ignorance of this problem, friend. That's on your shoulders.

Wrong, in the case of banans, Max Havelar is taking care of Workers rights, the country or state doesnt provide nor care about it, it is the Max Havelaar organisation and other controlling companys that set up the rules and take care the companys stick to them. you dont stick to the rules, you loose the Max Havelaar label, No government involved. Sure in a war region that will be far harder. Strange enough alot people around here that have the money buy the more expensive fairtrade products, and those more expensive farms are not out of bussiness.

 

[DC]

And where's this? Does it have a stable government with child protection statutes and worker's rights legislation? Somehow I don't think you're getting bananas from West Africa.

no my Bananas come from Costa Rica, and when you read reports from the UN for example you can see they still have Childlabor up to 10%, but not on farms with the Max Havelaar label. no government needed.

 

[DC]

btw, just making Child labor illegal and preventing those kids from going to work is no solution, often those families need that income, and the child hasnt any school to go to anyway. But the government is not interested in making Bananas more expensive or demand a minimal wage for workers, so they can feed their kids, and the kids can go to school. because that is poison for export bussines.

we consumers are asked to pay more, to finance the fair trade. Governments arent interested in that to much.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Wrong, in the case of banans, Max Havelar is taking care of Workers rights, the country or state doesnt provide nor care about it, it is the Max Havelaar organisation and other controlling companys that set up the rules and take care the companys stick to them. you dont stick to the rules, you loose the Max Havelaar label, No government involved. Sure in a war region that will be far harder. Strange enough alot people around here that have the money buy the more expensive fairtrade products, and those more expensive farms are not out of bussiness.

It's easy to see two sets of bananas in a supermarket and get a sudden twinge of the "greens" and impulse-buy some fairtrade bananas so you can feel good about yourself for the rest of the day.

Coltan is a different beast entirely. It goes in everything. Most people aren't buying CPUs or GPUs by themselves, they purchase package-deal computers. Not to mention calculators, ICs, the list goes on and on.

Now if a company like Intel or AMD were to set up an organization like the one you posited through its vendors, provide ample security for them, and do things the right way, that would do some good in the short term - but only as far as the Western microchip market is concerned. It would still be subject to the forces of supply and demand - which on paper would give the edge to the child labor market. They'd continue to get lots of business from Middle Eastern and Pacific Rim microchip manufacturers, or anyone who cared more about "bottom line" than "ethics."

The point I'm trying to make is that an ultimate solution to this problem won't present itself until the African countries where this is happening put their own houses in order. And it doesn't look promising in that regard, so the most we can hope for is "stopgap measures" like the one above.

Even then, you'd have to be comfortable with corporations meddling in the affairs of small countries. That kind of thing is the CTist's stock-in-trade.

 

[DC]

so you can feel good? what do you mean with that? i shouldnt buy the fair trade stuff because i dont mean it anyway? or what? you are a strange person.

 

[realpaladin]

it is hiden? when did that happen? just a view months ago i saw a reportage on Arte, that showed a new Caste, woman that set up watterwells in small villages and they start earning respect for what they do in India.

i never had the impression they hide it, actually they more seemed proud about it.

The people don't. The politicians do, when they talk to each other. That is what I said. Sorry if I was unclear.

But don't trust documentaries on these things... rather come over here and live in my area for a while.

But same thing going on here at the moment for same-sex sex... but that is off-topic.

 

[DC]

hope is not enough for me, if it is for you, fine bye bye

 

[JoeyDonuts]

so you can feel good? what do you mean with that? i shouldnt buy the fair trade stuff because i dont mean it anyway? or what? you are a strange person.

You are appearing to be more and more obtuse and out-of-control than I thought.

Come to think of it, the children of the African mines could probably do without your advocacy.

 

[DC]

The people don't. The politicians do, when they talk to each other. That is what I said. Sorry if I was unclear.

But don't trust documentaries on these things... rather come over here and live in my area for a while.

But same thing going on here at the moment for same-sex sex... but that is off-topic.

ah ok the documentary didnt involve politicans
Arte is pretty good in Documentarys, but i dont take just their word

 

[DC]

You are appearing to be more and more obtuse and out-of-control than I thought.

Come to think of it, the children of the African mines could probably do without your advocacy.

yeah im sorry i started the topic, if i could i would delete it.
as if those stupid african kids are my problem, at the end i will end up paying a bit more for my next CPU and who would want that? just to feel good? yeah it laughable. sorry i mentioned the African miners.

 

[funk de fino]

The point I'm trying to make is that an ultimate solution to this problem won't present itself until the African countries where this is happening put their own houses in order. And it doesn't look promising in that regard, so the most we can hope for is "stopgap measures" like the one above.

And its the same with oil, diamonds, copper, crops and cricket players

 

[funk de fino]

yeah im sorry i stated the topic, if i could i would delet it.
as if those stupid african kids are my problem, at the end i will end up paying a bit more for my next CPU and who would want that? just to feel good? yeah it laughable. sorry i mentioned the African miners.

Its not a stupid topic but it is a topic with a question very much like "Are bears are ******** in the woods?" in the OP

 

[DC]

Its not a stupid topic but it is a topic with a question very much like "Are bears are ******** in the woods?" in the OP

No it is stupid, obviously i do such things only to feel good and brag about it on JREF.

 

[DC]

http://ewasteandyou.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/fair-trade-electronics-meet-lili-oscar/

Belgium Fairtrade company.

 

[funk de fino]

No it is stupid, obviously i do such things only to feel good and brag about it on JREF.

Not at all and I dont think that is what the poster meant. I think your english may have let you down here again.

I buy fairtrade stuff as well when it is available. It is not going to do too much in the granbd scheme of things though. There are huge problems in that part of the world that can only be solved by the people themselves. You can say we can do better but it would still be a drop in the ocean. I know from the oil industry what it like over there and could be back to Angola neext month. I have some guys from Ghana here at the moment but had two from Congo cancel due to the president dying.

I have no doubt if western nations and coporations started meddling in this there would an outcry from the usual mob also.

 

[DC]

Not at all and I dont think that is what the poster meant. I think your english may have let you down here again.

I buy fairtrade stuff as well when it is available. It is not going to do too much in the granbd scheme of things though. There are huge problems in that part of the world that can only be solved by the people themselves. You can say we can do better but it would still be a drop in the ocean. I know from the oil industry what it like over there and could be back to Angola neext month. I have some guys from Ghana here at the moment but had two from Congo cancel due to the president dying.

I have no doubt if western nations and coporations started meddling in this there would an outcry from the usual mob also.

I think the more fairtrade products we buy instead of non fairtrade, the more it will help people solve their problem.

If we keep giving money for recources to warlords that have cheap chjildlabor do the work, they will become stronger and stronger. if we cooperate with people in those regions that do want to change the status quo we are making those people stronger. they can educated their children and build up infrastructure etc. this would really help them bettering their condition in their region.
i dont want my Government to meddling in their country, i just want to trade with the people that actually want to better conditions in their country. and not abuse their already powerfull positions to enrich themself or financing wars etc.

 

[funk de fino]

I think the more fairtrade products we buy instead of non fairtrade, the more it will help people solve their problem.

If we keep giving money for recources to warlords that have cheap chjildlabor do the work, they will become stronger and stronger. if we cooperate with people in those regions that do want to change the status quo we are making those people stronger. they can educated their children and build up infrastructure etc. this would really help them bettering their condition in their region.
i dont want my Government to meddling in their country, i just want to trade with the people that actually want to better conditions in their country. and not abuse their already powerfull positions to enrich themself or financing wars etc.

You really dont live in the real world do you DC? Thats something like a world that Enid Blyton would create.

If we cooperate with people in those regions who are not part of the govts/warlords/dictators crony system then by definition we are meddling. You cant have it both ways. I admire your sentiments but they are misplaced and unrealistic IMO.

 

[DC]

You really dont live in the real world do you DC? Thats something like a world that Enid Blyton would create.

If we cooperate with people in those regions who are not part of the govts/warlords/dictators crony system then by definition we are meddling. You cant have it both ways. I admire your sentiments but they are misplaced and unrealistic IMO.

well if that is meddling then i do support fairtrade organisations meddling.
They dont force others, they just set up rules they want to have followed by their trading partners, if they dont want, well fine, they will not trade with them.
if we buy products from the warlords is also meddling, as we support the warlord and weaken the non warlords in the region.

what else should we do? just close the eyes and not think about our products?

 

[Eddie Dane]

You don't know half of it. I have seen fights being stopped just because a guy said his name was <suchandso> which showed he was from a higher caste.

The caste system is not at all cosmetically removed, it is just 'hidden' for the rest of the world. Everyone still uses it.

I understand that Alexander the Great tried to abolish the caste system.
Given that he implemented laws to that effect 2300 years ago, we should be seeing results any day now.
You have to give these things time.

 

[Oliver]

Lobby against child work in African Gold Mines, create a big fuss in the Media and as a result, force companies to import from countries/companies that don't use child labour. I've seen this before the exact same way concerning hand-woven carpets produced by children.