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God, Evolution and the Clitoris

CriticalSock said:
I've had that argument used against me too! i.e. There's no need for food to taste good. The fact it does = god.
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I know this isn't your argument, but the problem with it is that it gets the cart before the horse. Our bodies "decided" food (especially fat - important to hunter / gatherers) tastes good.

A whole thread about the clitoris and this is the way I participate....
 
Yes! We need more clitoris! Now, did I dream it or is it true that foetuses all start off female but then some develop into males and that what ends up as the clitoris in the females develops into the penis in males? So there's a basic genitalia package which is tweaked by gender but all the components are still there in some form or another?

If I did dream that then dog help me! :)
 
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CriticalSock said:
I was having a heated discussion with my christian mother recently, prompted by her snorting in derision at a comment of David Attenboroughs on a nature documentary (I normally avoid the subject), and her crowning argument for creation over evolution was the human clitoris.

The idea being that the clitoris serves no function except to provide pleasure, therefore humans would never have evolved a clitoris and it proves we were created by God.

My arguments faltered after that, mostly because of hearing my mother say the word "clitoris". :)

So my question is, what is the evolutionary explanation for the existence of the clitoris?
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We see purpose where it's convenient for us to fill in with our preconceived Mythical Tale.

One could very easily argue it on the opposite side and say that sex is Satan's work because Satan made sex to be pleasurable, therefore the clitoris is a work of Satan, so that explains the whole sex as an evil temptation that corrupts us, blablabla (And I'm pretty sure a lot of Christian fundies have actually made this kind of argument)

It's all about how you wanna construct your Fantasy Inner Logic.
 
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Mr. Purple said:
I know this isn't your argument, but the problem with it is that it gets the cart before the horse. Our bodies "decided" food (especially fat - important to hunter / gatherers) tastes good.

A whole thread about the clitoris and this is the way I participate....
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hehehe. Me too. We need to get out more.
 
Wow, I've heard tell of biblical literalists, but never a biblical clitoralist... :spshocked:
 
I love the little things that creationists try to find in evolution to try to discredit it. It should be a meme:

99.9% OF EVOLUTION EXPLAINED SCIENTIFICALLY

0.1% DOUBT ∴ GOD EXISTS

So is Christian sex pleasurable? Is it just like two bits of wood humping?

blobru said:
Wow, I've heard tell of biblical literalists, but never a biblical clitoralist...
spshocked.gif
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What about Christian aballogists? Cumdementalism?
 
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Christian aballogist: Old and New Test is clasped tightly. :spunhappy:
 
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1. Most needs in animals are regulated via pathways that play the role of the carrot and the stick. If you should be doing something, you get some sort of discomfort signal, and if you're doing it, you get some sort of reward signal.

E.g., if your ion concentration is too high, you get a thirst signal, and if you drink water while that's the case, it feels good. You don't just get the discomfort signal removed, you actually get a shot of canabinoids for improving your situation.

Additionally, there is a "keep doing it" signal, basically, that's mostly based on dopamine. As long as you're doing something that triggers a reward signal, that stays on. With some up/down variation, of course.

Sex is basically the same thing. You'll want the animal to want to do it, and to be rewarded in some way for doing it. You'll want it to stay rewarding while it's done, so the animal doesn't suddenly go "actually, this is quite boring already. I'll go pounce on something instead."

Actually "want" is exactly the wrong word. There is nobody wanting it. It's just that that's what works. Those who aren't wired for what works to reproduce, don't have descendants (as many or at all), and thus are naturally selected against.

2. But I'd skip just that, and actually dump another sex argument right back on whoever does such a design argument.

You know how the clitoris is basically evolved from the same tissue that evolves into a penis or a clitoris, based on chemical signals while a fetus? Well, the same pairing exists between the vagina and the prostate.

So why would the OT God do that? I mean, he could have saved himself a lot of ranting against guys lying with other guys instead of women, and smiting, and nuking cities, and sending prophets and apostles to rant against it, and whatnot, by just not placing some erectile erogenous tissue up their back door in the first place. Why doesn't he fix his own design instead of creating all that work for himself?

Briefly: if placing an organ to give women pleasure when they do what God wants them to do, is a sign of design... well, what's with placing an organ to give guys pleasure when they do when God totally abhors? Well?
 
If God designed the clitoris, he should have designed a better penis too. A protuberance on top of the shaft, a la unicorn horn, comes to mind...
 
CriticalSock said:
I was having a heated discussion with my christian mother recently, prompted by her snorting in derision at a comment of David Attenboroughs on a nature documentary (I normally avoid the subject), and her crowning argument for creation over evolution was the human clitoris.
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A lot of religious people in Africa cut off the clitoris though.
 
CriticalSock said:
. . . therefore humans would never have evolved a clitoris and it proves we were created by God.

So my question is, what is the evolutionary explanation for the existence of the clitoris?
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Humans aren't the only species where the female evolved a clitoris. They aren't even the one that evolved to allow for the most pleasure as your mother seems to think. The pig, with its clitoris inside the vaginal canal, is probably positioned for pleasure.
 
So i suppose the female orgasm evolved for the same reason?

What non-human females have clitorii?
 
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