"God doesn't make mistakes."

[fishbob]

Okay I have to bite - what is it about your arse that proves God makes mistakes?

1 - Not very effective for sitting at a desk all day.
2 - All the teeth marks.

 

[fuelair]

God isn't judgable on our human levels though. Children born to live in absolute agony for a few years with no hope of growing older might be glowing successes to him!



It's a sick attitude.

That's why, if I somehow believed in it, I would have no choice but to do my best to kill it.

 

[Brainache]

...

Would you spend time debating how Santa could really know for sure who was naughty and who was nice?

I would if there was a large portion of society trying to make laws based on what Santa thinks...

 

[yog_sothoth]

If god doesn't make mistakes why did Adam and Eve fall from grace so quickly? If someone builds a bridge that collapses shortly after construction you blame the engineer, not the bridge.

 

[Mudcat]

I could probably, maybe come up with something more reprehensible then that if I put my mind to it. But I would have to kill myself right afterwards.

 

[Craig B]

If god doesn't make mistakes why did Adam and Eve fall from grace so quickly? If someone builds a bridge that collapses shortly after construction you blame the engineer, not the bridge.

That pair fell from grace, and even after YHWH had taken remedial action things still got so bad that a few generations later He felt obliged to drown the whole lot of humanity, except eight people.

A sorry record of mistakes and incompetence. No wonder He repented!

 

[Leumas]

That pair fell from grace, and even after YHWH had taken remedial action things still got so bad that a few generations later He felt obliged to drown the whole lot of humanity, except eight people.

A sorry record of mistakes and incompetence. No wonder He repented!

His FAVORITE person and the one he endowed with the most AMAZING WISDOM was not that impressed and worshiped Baal and a hoard of other gods DESPITE this guy being the WISEST MAN EVER due to being given magical wisdom directly by him.

He was so unimpressive and a failure that even his chosen people made a cow out of gold and worshiped it in preference to him right after he freed them from slavery and guided them with pillars of fire and smoke across the parted red sea all the while raining manna on them and springing water out of desert rocks.

And all that right after massacring most of Egypt and plaguing them with such catastrophes that only Jews failed to be impressed by the power of his magic.

But even after punishing them for forty years they REPEATEDLY and ENDLESSLY kept reverting to worshiping Baal who apparently must have been a lot more impressive and loveable.

He was such an amazing REPEATED failure that he had to KILL HIS OWN SON just to beg the Jews to keep loving him. And having failed that he had to go to the people he never even considered as anything other than DOGS and beg them to worship him instead.

And EVEN THAT failed so abysmally that he needs ANOTHER GO AT IT.

Don't forget also the fact that he was THWARTED by iron chariots, not to mention the SCADS of times he himself admits REMORSE and changing his mind and not KNOWING things and having to be told what is what.

 

[Craig B]

Don't forget also the fact that he was THWARTED by iron chariots

Chariots!?! For an old-fashioned mountain-dwelling backwoods bronze-age god, even iron sickles are too big a deal!

1 Sam 13: 19 Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, “Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!” 20 So all Israel went down to the Philistines to have their plow points, mattocks, axes and sickles sharpened. ... 22 So on the day of the battle not a soldier with Saul and Jonathan had a sword or spear in his hand; only Saul and his son Jonathan had them.

We may also recall that YHWH "repented" of having made Saul king.

 

[Leumas]

Chariots!?! For an old-fashioned mountain-dwelling backwoods bronze-age god, even iron sickles are too big a deal! We may also recall that YHWH "repented" of having made Saul king.

And don't forget that he lost a wrestling match to Jacob.

Also David who was selected by him personally right after he failed with Saul also turned out to be an adulterer and murderer.

Also do not forget that Ahab defeated YHWH's Coup d'état effort when he sent a lying angel to convince Ahab to go to war and get killed.

Also do not forget HIS house ....his HOLY OF HOLIES .... his DWELLING on Earth.... his favorite place.... his TEMPLE.... he could not protect that place TWICE.

Not a single stone remains in evidence for his house ever having been built. That must be the most abysmal god ever. Even Asherah still has some of her shrines standing, not to mention Zeus and Amon et al.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

His FAVORITE person and the one he endowed with the most AMAZING WISDOM was not that impressed and worshiped Baal and a hoard of other gods DESPITE this guy being the WISEST MAN EVER due to being given magical wisdom directly by him.

He was so unimpressive and a failure that even his chosen people made a cow out of gold and worshiped it in preference to him right after he freed them from slavery and guided them with pillars of fire and smoke across the parted red sea all the while raining manna on them and springing water out of desert rocks.

And all that right after massacring most of Egypt and plaguing them with such catastrophes that only Jews failed to be impressed by the power of his magic.

But even after punishing them for forty years they REPEATEDLY and ENDLESSLY kept reverting to worshiping Baal who apparently must have been a lot more impressive and loveable.

He was such an amazing REPEATED failure that he had to KILL HIS OWN SON just to beg the Jews to keep loving him. And having failed that he had to go to the people he never even considered as anything other than DOGS and beg them to worship him instead.

And EVEN THAT failed so abysmally that he needs ANOTHER GO AT IT.

Don't forget also the fact that he was THWARTED by iron chariots, not to mention the SCADS of times he himself admits REMORSE and changing his mind and not KNOWING things and having to be told what is what.

Well, er...... ..... God works in mysterious ways....

 

[Bill Thompson]

without mistakes there would be no life.
the expression makes no sense.

chance mutations are the origins of all species.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

without mistakes there would be no life.
the expression makes no sense.

chance mutations are the origins of all species.

Ultimate proof that there can be no God.

 

[Leumas]

Well, er...... ..... God works in mysterious ways....

Well.... even this is an abject failure.....

If his aim is to impress us in any way.... then him working in mysterious ways helped dispel any doubt that he is a moron.

If on the other hand his aim is to not influence us then again he screwed up... because he did for quite a few of us.

If his aim is to dazzle us.... then again he flunked.... because most of us are far from even being awed.


Whichever way you twist it.... YHWH is definitely an INEPT BUNGLING FOOL.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Well.... even this is an abject failure.....

If his aim is to impress us in any way.... then him working in mysterious ways helped dispel any doubt that he is a moron.

If on the other hand his aim is to not influence us then again he screwed up... because he did for quite a few of us.

If his aim is to dazzle us.... then again he flunked.... because most of us are far from even being awed.


Whichever way you twist it.... YHWH is definitely an INEPT BUNGLING FOOL.

Damn.... well.... I guess the only mistake then, is God himself.

 

[Leumas]

Also do not forget HIS house ....his HOLY OF HOLIES .... his DWELLING on Earth.... his favorite place.... his TEMPLE.... he could not protect that place TWICE.

Actually I am wrong about that....twice it was utterly destroyed. But there were scores of times where it was desecrated by conquering kings. Once even the Greeks converted it to be for the worship of Zeus with pig sacrifice and all.

Another time it was also made into a Roman temple.

But here is one that is by the king of MOAB defeating YHWH and desecrating his temple. Remember the Moabites are supposed to be from Moab the son of Lot with his own daughter after she raped him.

Here is an excerpt

14.of Maharit. And Kemosh said to me, "Go! Seize Nebo against Israel." so I
15.proceeded by night and fought with it from the crack of dawn to midday, and I to-
16.-ok it and I slew all of them: seven thousand men and boys, and women and gi-
17.and maidens because I had dedicated it to Ashtar Kemosh I took [the ves-] 18.-sels of YHWH, and I dragged them before Kemosh. And the king of Israel had built

I think Ron said it best

Damn.... well.... I guess the only mistake then, is God himself.

 

[Craig B]

Also do not forget HIS house ... he could not protect that place TWICE. Not a single stone remains in evidence for his house ever having been built. That must be the most abysmal god ever. Even Asherah still has some of her shrines standing ...

Maybe, for old times' sake, Asherah could put YHWH up while He gets His place fixed. They used to be an item, after all.
Anyway, she owes Him one. See http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html

... the goddess Asherah was worshiped in Yahweh's Temple in Jerusalem. In the Book of Kings, we're told that a statue of Asherah was housed in the temple and that female temple personnel wove ritual textiles for her.

It's in 2 Kings 23:7

He (King Josiah) also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes that were in the temple of the LORD, the quarters where women did weaving for Asherah.

Josiah was a bit of a killjoy; but wow! I hope God's "repented" for filling His residence with male prostitutes, weaving women and goddesses. These days, a place like that would be busted by the cops!

 

[Craig B]

Leumas

As Jephthah said (before he sacrificed his virgin daughter to YHWH), at Judges 11: 23

Now since the LORD, the God of Israel, has driven the Amorites out before his people Israel, what right have you to take it over? 24 Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? Likewise, whatever the LORD our God has given us, we will possess.

So these two gods could get along most of the time, like mafia bosses. And they most certainly believed in each others' existence, or at least their worshippers did. They had the same MO too when feuds broke out. Kill everyone, maidens and all.

 

[DC]

would a designer, design millions of different robots but then have them all destroyed because they don't do the things in a way the designer wanted them to, we surely would consider him as having made a misstake at some point

 

[catsmate]

I really do not like these conversations because you are validating God belief in a round about way. I knew I'd come in and see the conjoined twins and other "mistakes." And to point out that "God made them, and they are a mistake" is just underscoring that goddit.

Stop doing that. Not even for the purpose of a hypothetical situation. Would you spend time debating how Santa could really know for sure who was naughty and who was nice?

Yes. Twice in fact; once at college (before we learned to pick locks) and once with my cohabitees.

 

[catsmate]

The title of this thread is rendered in quotes because I've heard said thus many times by evangelical Christians. Along with this bit dogma is another: "There are no accidents." The ideas that God doesn't make mistakes and that there are no accidents are often used to attack not only abortion, but birth control as well. So, if you find out early in the pregnancy that the embryo / fetus / child has Tay-Sachs syndrome, you aren't allowed to abort. God doesn't make mistakes, You were meant to care for that child, not abort it before its brain synapses connect up.

As terrible as this example is - since infants afflicted with Tay-Sachs live only a short while, apparently in intense pain - the idea that there are no accidents even means that God intends to happen to you whatever does. Thus, on a TV series on fundamentalism, I saw a minister, relating how his little girl was severely burned, scarred and crippled for life, preaching how hard he found it to deal with God doing that to his family, yet knowing there was a purpose to it. All the while he's doing this, the kid is sitting there listening to this. Thus, she must believe in a God who wanted here scarred, deformed and crippled for life.

It appears to me that those Christians who follow the theology that prohibits either mistakes of accidents have painted themselves into a corner and must accept absolutely horrible things about God, just to make God perfect. of course, it goes without saying that free will depends on there not being a perfect God. This is where pagans might have an edge on monotheists. Their gods are often less than perfect, thus allowing for accidents, mistakes and the existence of evil. Those worshipping God, however, are stuck with all sorts of conundrums, not the least of which is the existence of evil in a world made by a perfect God.

This always struck me as a really stupid argument, even by xian apologist standards. If nothing is an accident then surely their omniscient god would have factored the use of birth control, abortion et cetera into his plans?