Go Afghans!

Pardalis

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/20/afghanistan.election/index.html

One has to the emphasize the courage the Afghans have shown today for exercising their democratic right, against the threats and the violence.

Alot of polls were closed and 26 people have been killed, but it looks like the turn out was good.

Although like in everything, there are bound to be a few snags:
After voting, one elderly man admitted he wasn't sure who he voted for. "Whoever God wants will be king," he said.
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:D

When you think that in our western countries, people can't even manage to get off their butts to go to vote.
 
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will we still support a winner if that winner rigs the vote?

answer is yes...The only democratic right that afghans are participating is the democratic right to participate in a dodgy election. Afghanistan is still a long way short of somewhere that a free election can occur.

Happen to like the Idea that old guy had about "whoever god wants to be king" makes things so much simpler.

But anyway, Karzai gets to wear a Goodie hat but lets not start attributing things like democracy to his rule just yet.
 
Point is, anyone who shows up to a poll in that place is quite brave. Good for them.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Point is, anyone who shows up to a poll in that place is quite brave. Good for them.
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very true. Overcoming the "thugs keep people away from polling stations" is an essential step in the right direction. Hopefully that is whats happening.
 
The Fool said:
will we still support a winner if that winner rigs the vote?
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Why so pessimistic?

answer is yes...The only democratic right that afghans are participating is the democratic right to participate in a dodgy election. Afghanistan is still a long way short of somewhere that a free election can occur.
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You've already given up on them, I'm not surprised. Your cynicism is tantamount to wishing the terrorist should win. Good thing the good brave people of Afghanistan and the proud people servicing our Armed Forces will prove you wrong.

Quad4_72 said:
Point is, anyone who shows up to a poll in that place is quite brave. Good for them.
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Absolutely, that these people go out to vote under these circumstances is a lesson to all of us, well, except the Fool, he doesn't seem to care for freedom and democracy.
 
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I'm amazed by all of this... these people come out under such harsh & dangerous conditions to vote. Wow :)

It's news like this that makes me think too many of us in the U.S. take our entire electoral system & government for granted. With all of the petty bickering we engage in through our political discourse, I think we sometimes cannot see the forest through the trees.

This sort of news is really humbling.
 
Can I just chip in with uncharacteristic optimism here? I'm glad they voted at the polls, and it's a step in the right direction.

Thanks.
 
Pardalis said:
If he wore a black hat would it make it alright for you? You seem quite obsessed with his head wear.
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wouldn't have been an issue. In these democratic elections only candidates issued with white hats are allowed to run. No black hats.....sorry.
 
I'm truely saddened by the threats of violence and applaud the people who still got out and voted. The Taliban are heinous - threatening to cut off the dyed finger of anyone who voted has to be one of the most awful threats in history. Dark ages indeed.

They're preventing Afganistan to moving out of the dark ages and becoming a participant in modern society. I've talked to American Special Forces personnel who have served in Afghanistan, and they say that the average people are wonderful people.

The Taliban needs to be wiped out. And I don't say that lightly since I consider genocide one of the worst crimes in history - although this isn't genocide, it's just combating a terrorist organization that tries to control the lives of people who just want to live in peace and go about their lives. Religious oppression, no matter what form it takes, simply can't be tolerated. The world would be better off without religious fundamentalism. I wish more moderate Muslims (and Christians) would speak up and oppose the radical elements of their belief systems. Either they're scared (and I can understand how the Afghan people are scared) or they just don't care and don't want to rock the boat. Extremism in any form shouldn't be tolerated by rational people - no matter what their faith.
 
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supercorgi said:
I'm truely saddened by the threats of violence and applaud the people who still got out and voted. The Taliban are heinous - threatening to cut off the dyed finger of anyone who voted has to be one of the most awful threats in history. Dark ages indeed.

They're preventing Afganistan to moving out of the dark ages and becoming a participant in modern society. I've talked to American Special Forces personnel who have served in Afghanistan, and they say that the average people are wonderful people.

The Taliban needs to be wiped out. And I don't say that lightly since I consider genocide one of the worst crimes in history - although this isn't genocide, it's just combating a terrorist organization that tries to control the lives of people who just want to live in peace and go about their lives. Religious oppression, no matter what form it takes, simply can't be tolerated. The world would be better off without religious fundamentalism. I wish more moderate Muslims (and Christians) would speak up and oppose the radical elements of their belief systems. Either they're scared (and I can understand how the Afghan people are scared) or they just don't care and don't want to rock the boat. Extremism in any form shouldn't be tolerated by rational people - no matter what their faith.
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absolutely right about the taliban, they had to go. What saddens me is how we seem to have to salute whatever takes over after them under whatever dubious circumstance or risk being labelled as a terrorist supporter or freedom hater by wind up drumming monkeys.
 
respect for voting despite the terror.
im sure i wouldnt have the courage.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
The incredibly brave Malalai Joya speaks the truth: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...de-ndash-the-people-are-betrayed-1774574.html
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There's a problem right from the very first paragraph:

Like millions of Afghans, I have no hope in the results of today's election. In a country ruled by warlords, occupation forces, Taliban terrorists, drug money and guns, no one can expect a legitimate or fair vote. Even international observers have been speaking about widespread fraud and intimidation and, among the people on the street, there is a common refrain: the real winner has already been picked by the White House.
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Since the country is "ruled" by "warlords, occupation forces, Taliban terrorists, drug money and guns" (all of them?), then how can the winner be picked by the White House specifically?

It's either ruled by the warlords, the Taliban or the White House, it can't be all of them at once, these forces work against each other, not in conjunction (unless you're a conspiracy theorist). So why has the author decided it's the White House that won, since the control over the country is contested between all of these factions?
So do not be fooled by this façade of democracy. The British and other Western governments that claim to be bringing democracy to Afghanistan ignore public opinion in their own countries, where growing numbers are against the war.
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Against the war? She prefers when the Taliban were in power?

In fact the soldiers are serving the strategic and regional interests of the White House and the consequences of their occupation so far have been devastating for my people.
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It appears so, she's against the removal of the Taliban, if it wasn't for the invasion, they would still be ruling Afghanistan. Her rhetoric is very clear.
 
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Pardalis said:
There's a problem right from the very first paragraph:

It's either ruled by the warlords, the Taliban or the White House, it can't be all of them at once, these forces work against each other, not in conjunction (unless you're a conspiracy theorist). So why has the author decided it's the White House that won, since the control over the country is contested between all of these factions?
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To those of us who are accustomed to living in an elected aristocracy, the outcome was highly predictable. It will take decades of investment in this country before a new aristocracy is elected. When the "big corporate bigwigs" win elections or "<their> pawns" here in North America, it feeds into our media culture and we spin things off like documentaries, t-shirts, books etc.. However, most of the arguments are a regurgitation of aged old arguments. The fact that Karzai won, simply feeds into our defeatist mentality and provides us with tons to write about (like I'm doing) and hell.. maybe make a movie and name a burger after it :) We like to make money and so we find any an all excuses to do so.
My point is that the rant about Karzai is the same ol' just projected into another country. What's important to keep in mind is that people showed up to ballots! We look at this as trivial - hell most people I know don't vote. But for many people, voting is a big deal. Afghanistan has too many factions to contemplate this as a traditional fair election in the Western sense. However, people showed up, people voted and people expressed an opinion despite threats and deaths. In north america, if one person died because they were going to the ballot, people would run to the booze store, the drug store, the grocery store and then to their basements while watching TV and playing video games.... or ranting like I'm doing on a forum:) :) :)
The troops that are out there are doing something right if people in such a violent country can show up and vote. Even if really it is the "nobles" voting for their own "aristocracy".
 
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Pardalis said:
Against the war? She prefers when the Taliban were in power?
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I think the point she is making is that things are just as bad for women, if not worse, since the war.

The Afghan people are turning out to vote in an election in which people like Joya are expelled from the Parliament for simply speaking their mind, and then forced to go into hiding because of various assassination attempts.
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
I think the point she is making is that things are just as bad for women, if not worse, since the war.
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How many women were executed in soccer fields for showing their face in public (or equivalent "crimes") since the Taliban are out of power?

Is it still illegal for a woman to learn to read and write in Afghanistan?

Just asking.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
I think the point she is making is that things are just as bad for women, if not worse, since the war.

The Afghan people are turning out to vote in an election in which people like Joya are expelled from the Parliament for simply speaking their mind, and then forced to go into hiding because of various assassination attempts.
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It's not a perfect world and there are bound to be setbacks and injustices, but all in all, the situation is far better than it was prior to invasion, and that Miss Joya has clearly a bias, she clearly decided that the bad guys are the US (of course), and for her to say she's against the "war" is ludicrous. If it wasn't for the war, she wouldn't be there.
 
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