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Global warming

varwoche said:
Originally Posted by mhaze
Volcanic action under NE Greenland, also not told us by DailyGreen.
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And that's a good thing. Because if you read the entire article you would have seen:
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Quote:
It could be that there’s a volcano down there but we think it’s probably just the way the heat is being distributed by the rock topography at the base of the ice.
Click to expand...

Which of course I did see and your point is...????

Does this soon to be revealed point it refute the apparent pro-AGW DailyGreen disinformation?
 
mhaze said:
Which of course I did see and your point is...????
Click to expand...

The point being that you said "also not told us by DailyGreen", even though it was mentioned.

Does this soon to be revealed point it refute the apparent pro-AGW DailyGreen disinformation?
Click to expand...

Like varwoche and the rest of the world I don't put much (if any) store by the DailyGreen, but you seem to care enough to misrepresent it while attacking it. Not even you can blame the DailyGreen for the Bali Conference and its outcome.

Got any comments on that subject?
 
CapelDodger said:
Originally Posted by mhaze
Which of course I did see and your point is...????
​
The point being that you said "also not told us by DailyGreen", even though it was mentioned.

Got any comments on that subject?
Click to expand...

Sure.
Where is it mentioned?:D
 
There's a new poll on AGW that I won't be contributing to, since my position is hardly a mystery.

Thread-jumping really irritates me. An answer and explanation of it is all a poll calls for; argument can be enagaged in on this thread - "Global Warming" is about as inclusive a title as could be asked for.
 
mhaze said:
Sure.
Where is it mentioned?:D
Click to expand...

You actually edited out " Not even you can blame the DailyGreen for the Bali Conference and its outcome." In front of everybody's eyes.

The Bali Conference has had a lot of mention. Do you have any comment to make on it? Any attachment of blame? Perhaps something about the influence (malign or otherwise) of DailyGreen?

As quoted from DailyGreen by varwoche :


"It could be that there’s a volcano down there but we think it’s probably just the way the heat is being distributed by the rock topography at the base of the ice. "
Click to expand...

Hardly dogmatic, nor likely to have much impact. And it does mention the alternative volcanic interpretation. One volcano, one (untypical) place, one blog, and you take desperate refuge in it.

I can see why; you must find everything global pretty disheartening these days. Nil desperandum, the next three-to-eight years of persistence might see you validated.
 
CapelDodger said:
You actually edited out " Not even you can blame the DailyGreen for the Bali Conference and its outcome." In front of everybody's eyes. The Bali Conference has had a lot of mention. Do you have any comment to make on it? Any attachment of blame? Perhaps something about the influence (malign or otherwise) of DailyGreen?
As quoted from DailyGreen by varwoche :

Quote:
"It could be that there’s a volcano down there but we think it’s probably just the way the heat is being distributed by the rock topography at the base of the ice. "
​
Hardly dogmatic, nor likely to have much impact. And it does mention the alternative volcanic interpretation. One volcano, one (untypical) place, one blog, and you take desperate refuge in it.
Click to expand...

The quote you ascribe to Varoche is from my reference, not from your disinformation associates at DailyGreen.

Confused a bit?

That rumbling sound you hear is the collapse of malformed but key supports of the castle of AGW. Hold those walls up - but seek help. The ex Iraq Information Maestro, Bagdad Bob, might be available.
Furloughed Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (M.S.S.) is named "Stupidest Person in the World" at the first annual World Stupidity Awards, held in Canada. And so the first, albeit small, step in his long campaign for the Nobel Peace Prize is completed.
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"I have detailed information about the situation . . . which completely proves that what they allege are illusions . . . They lie every day." lies and more lies!" "We are in control. They are in a state of hysteria. . . . .I think they will not win, those bastards."
 
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Our Modern CO2 Illusionists

CapelDodger said:
You actually edited out " Not even you can blame the DailyGreen for the Bali Conference and its outcome." In front of everybody's eyes.

The Bali Conference has had a lot of mention. Do you have any comment to make on it? Any attachment of blame?
Click to expand...

Sure, Bali.

Our Modern CO2 Illusionists
The magician displays a bird cage, holding it between both hands. Often there is a bird (fake in these more sensitive times) inside. The magician offers the cage for inspection by a member of the audience, but the illusionist never releases his grip. Then, without covering the cage, he makes a sudden motion, and the cage (bird and all) vanishes from sight. Of course, the cage is built to collapse, and to run, hidden, up the illusionist’s capacious sleeve.

Today, our politicians are pulling off an equally tacky illusion, as carbon dioxide emissions vanish in their capacious rhetoric.(more)
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mhaze said:
The quote you ascribe to Varoche is from my reference
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Correct, though it doesn't get you off the hook even slightly. To summarize:

You claimed that volcanoes under Greenland were at play, and linked to the article as evidence (post 2739). Whereas the lead scientist is quoted:
Ralph von Frese said:
It could be that there’s a volcano down there but we think it’s probably just the way the heat is being distributed by the rock topography at the base of the ice.
Click to expand...
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assumed you overlooked the quote (post 2742).

But you admitted to having seen the quote and to willfully having distorted the article (post 2743).

Of course the fact that you constantly distort the truth is hardly a surprise to anyone who has followed this thread. However, it's useful to get such a clear, distilled example, allowing casual readers to be aware of your dishonest tactics.
 
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varwoche said:
Correct, though it doesn't get you off the hook even slightly. To summarize:

You claimed that volcanoes under Greenland were at play, and linked to the article as evidence (post 2739). Whereas the lead scientist is quoted: Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assumed you overlooked the quote (post 2742).

But you admitted to having seen the quote and to willfully having distorted the article (post 2743).
Originally Posted by mhaze
Volcanic action under NE Greenland, also not told us by DailyGreen.

if you read the entire article you would have seen:
Quote:
It could be that there’s a volcano down there but we think it’s probably just the way the heat is being distributed by the rock topography at the base of the ice.
​
Of course the fact that you constantly distort the truth is hardly a surprise to anyone who has followed this thread. However, it's useful to get such a clear, distilled example, allowing casual readers to be aware of your dishonest tactics.
Click to expand...

Morality police, are you? Of the type that grasps at straws, clutching at shards of interpretation to discredit those whom do not hold your narrow views.

Those thin reeds are hard to stand on, but go on with it. Standing on the shoulders of dwarfs and trolls is much easier, and allows seeing a bit farther.

Yes, we could split up volcanos, volcanic thermal energy, geothermal energy, add infinitum, and dance around the subject. But the basic fact remains, that the article concerns "energy from below", not energy from greenhouse gas warming, or for that matter, any sort of "energy from above" including solar.

DailyGreen was being disingenous and misinforming, presenting only man made factors as causative in Greenland's melt. Apparently you think that such disinformation is worth defending. Perhaps because it is so common in AGW arguments, rhetoric and ideology. Thank you for defending DailyGreen, albeit weakly.
 
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Oops....Polar bears can take care of themselves, eh?

What may be the oldest known remains of a polar bear have been uncovered on the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic.

 The jawbone was pulled from sediments that suggest the specimen is perhaps 110,000 or 130,000 years old. Professor Olafur Ingolfsson from the University of Iceland says tests show it was an adult, possibly a female.

"And what's interesting about that is that the Eeemian - the last interglacial - was much warmer than the Holocene (the present).

"....despite the ongoing warming in the Arctic today, maybe we don't have to be quite so worried about the polar bear." (more)
 
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Lennart Hyland said:
I've heard that the CO2 absorbationspectrum is barely changing when the amount of CO2 is doubled.

http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/co2_absorption.gif

Doesnt that mean if CO2 is doubled, our temperature is almost still the same?
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That is why early scientists didn't believe it would be a problem. Hence the discovery of the 'enhanced greenhouse effect' was a surprise. Kind of the galileo event of last century, to steal a meme from the deniers.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/06/a-saturated-gassy-argument/
 
CapelDodger said:
You actually edited out " Not even you can blame the DailyGreen for the Bali Conference and its outcome." In front of everybody's eyes.

The Bali Conference has had a lot of mention. Do you have any comment to make on it?
Click to expand...

More Bali bs?

Fortnight Of The Undead: Bali DiaryBy Lord Christopher Mockton in Nusa Dua, Bali

I nearly didn’t go to Bali. The UN, which had not wanted any dissent at this carefully-staged event, rejected my journalistic credentials out of hand, and without explanation. However, a non-government organization came to the rescue and the high priests didn’t dare to say No a second time. That would have looked too obvious. I proved my journo-cred by writing a major article in the Jakarta Post on day 1 of the conference, cheekily claiming my share of the Nobel Prize because the IPCC had made a correction to its latest Holy Book at my suggestion, and concluding that, since our influence on the climate is a non-problem, and the correct approach to a non-problem is to do nothing, my fellow-participants should have the courage to do nothing and push off home.(more)
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It is generally agreed the current total effect of all GHGs makes the earth about 33C warmer that it would be otherwise. Middle of the IPCC range for the effect of a doubling of CO2 is about 3C.

What so what happens when current CO2 doubles is the total GHG effect will be 36C. But, what happens with the following CO2 doubling? If the effect is logarithmic as has been suggested, the effect will be less than 3C. Which implies that the previous doubling to get up to current values had a more than 3C effect. Something doesn't sound right.

Let us do a thought experiment to determine if this doubling figure is reasonable.

For ease of figuring I will consider each doubling of CO2 as being equal to 3C. Starting with an atmosphere containing 1ppm of CO2 eight doublings results in 256ppm(LIA) and nine doublings results in 512ppm which is about 140ppm high than now. Eight doublings at 3C per doubling = 24C and nine doublings = 27C. This leaves less than 10C for the effect of all other GHGs including the elephant in the room, water vapor.

It seems to me when they say each doubling of CO2 causes 3C or anything close to that figure, there is a whole lot of conjecture being made from climate models that may show that effect.
 
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