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Moderated Global Warming Discussion

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Of course in order for it to be a hoax pretty much everything we know about physics and chemistry would have to be wrong. Funny how that never gets much play.
 
It's interesting how the various anti-science proponents here seem to be comfortable with the felonious actions of these hackers.

What is interesting is that there is still no smoking gun, only more misrepresentation, more selective quoting, and more attempts to deny the obvious.
 
Meh. We’ve had 5 separate investigations into this and the only malfeasance was on the part of the criminal who stole the e-mails to begin with. The only effect a few new e-mails can have is to remind everyone how the “scandal” turned out to be bunk.
 
JudeBrando said:
"Three themes are emerging from the newly released emails: (1) prominent scientists central to the global warming debate are taking measures to conceal rather than disseminate underlying data and discussions; (2) these scientists view global warming as a political “cause” rather than a balanced scientific inquiry and (3) many of these scientists frankly admit to each other that much of the science is weak and dependent on deliberate manipulation of facts and data."

"...a concerted effort to hide rather than disseminate underlying evidence and procedures."

"“I’ve been told that IPCC is above national FOI [Freedom of Information] Acts. One way to cover yourself..."

“Any work we have done in the past is done on the back of the research grants we get – and has to be well hidden... I’ve discussed this with the main funder (U.S. Dept of Energy) in the past and they are happy about not releasing the original station data.”"

“The trick may be to decide on the main message and use that to guid[e] what’s included and what is left out”

"I have been talking w/ folks in the states about finding an investigative journalist to investigate and expose” skeptical scientist Steve McIntyre..."

"...“must get rid of” the editor for a peer-reviewed science journal because he published some papers contradicting assertions of a global warming crisis."
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?!

Why would any of you want to overlook and excuse this?
 
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JudeBrando said:
?!

Why would any of you want to overlook and excuse this?
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Because it is of no significance. Global warming is happening. It is at least partialy due to what human beings are up to. We are not going to do anything about it.

So relax, give up on the politics and try and return to reality.
 
JudeBrando said:
?!

Why would any of you want to overlook and excuse this?
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because they are quote mined out of context snippets being misrepresented and misportrayed, which most of us understand is the same as a whole cloth lie.

More importantly why do you defend such disingenuous practices in a skeptical forum and on the science and technology boards of all places?
 
geni said:
Global warming is happening. It is at least partialy due to what human beings are up to. We are not going to do anything about it.

So relax, give up on the politics and try and return to reality.
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Reality is that global warming and global cooling has always happened and will always happen just like summer and winter has always happened and will always happen.
 
Ask yourself who benefits in the exquisite timing of the leaking and selective quoting of the e-mails.

Ask yourself why the *entire* contents and trail of e-mails is not quoted

Now consider why somebody would want the status quo maintained.
 
JudeBrando said:
Reality is that global warming and global cooling has always happened and will always happen just like summer and winter has always happened and will always happen.
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What about the ice ages? Was there Summer in those periods?
 
The one thing I've found in the whole debate is that there's still so much we don't know. The evidence tends to support one interpretation, but that doesn't mean it's the only interpretation out there.

Having said that, denying there's a problem makes about as much sense as trying to fly by throwing yourself at the Earth and missing. Makes for a great laugh, but beyond that, it's not much.

Sorry, Jude. You have given us information from a highly biased source with no interest in an honest discussion. I think the psychological term is "projection"...
 
JudeBrando said:
Reality is that global warming and global cooling has always happened and will always happen just like summer and winter has always happened and will always happen.
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Reality is that cases of lung cancer have always happened and will always happen, so my smoking can't possibly be the cause of mine.

Reality is that forest fires have always happened and will always happen, so those kids who were playing with matches in the exact place that one started at the exact time it started can't possibly have caused it.

Of all the arguments used by AGW deniers, the "it can happen naturally therefore it can't also be caused by us" must surely be the most idiotic.
 
JudeBrando said:
You are a source of CO2.
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Actualy human metabolism while they are still alive is slightly negative in CO2 terms since they store carbon in various places.

CO2 is plant food.
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Not exactly. Energy is aquired from light.

It is essential to life.
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Wrong. Life existed pre photosynthesis and there are still lifeforms that don't rely on it.
 
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JudeBrando said:
Reality is that global warming and global cooling has always happened and will always happen.
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Wrong. The earth is only 4.5 billion years or so old.

The problem is that our civilisations are built on the basis of a fairly stable climate.

just like summer and winter has always happened and will always happen.
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You lack ambition.
 
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JudeBrando said:
You are a source of CO2.
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CO2 is plant food. It is essential to life.
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Potassium is an essential element to human life, exceed the levels required to maintain life and metabolism by significant amounts, however, and it will stop your heart, whch is why it is used as the last of the three drugs administered in state executions.

No one is suggesting the elimination of CO2 from our atmosphere (things would get rather cold rather fast), we are merely trying to stop the use of the atmosphere as dumping ground for an industrial and commercial by-product that has already reached climate significant ratios and is beginning to generate dangerous consequences that we can't afford and may not survive if we don't find and engage in alternative practices that don't involve the continued dumping of this by-product from previously sequestered resevoirs into the atmosphere.
 
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JudeBrando said:
Reality is that global warming and global cooling has always happened and will always happen just like summer and winter has always happened and will always happen.
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“Your honour, how can I possibly be guilty of murder when people have been stabbed to death for thousands of years before I was even born.”
 
JudeBrando said:
You are a source of CO2.
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CO2 is plant food. It is essential to life.
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Irrelevant to the issue. Salt is also essential to human life. But there are reasons you are supposed to limit your intake.

And the CO2 released through respiration allows for a certain maintenance of CO2 levels. Digging up ancient carbon and then dumping it into the atmosphere is a whole 'nother ballgame.

And you dodged my question. Do you agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
 
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