• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: Global warming discussion V

I run totally offgrid for power (and hopefully next year I will have a EV as well- fuel prices are getting crazy again, with even the cheap ULP at $2.20 a litre, and diesel at $2.40... )

My family are all looking at getting hybrid battery packs for their solar as electricity costs are skyrocketing as well (over a grand a year each, even with solar on the roof) and with LFP battery pack prices dropping in price,payback times of under three years are now becoming the norm in Australia

I haven't even seen an electric bill in several years lol- mines totally from the sun... (I do really need to get the rest of the panels up though- my little 'temporary' array is ok, but its gunna be a stinkin hot summer in Australia, and I suspect the A/C will be used a lot more this summer- I can use it during the day, but not in the evenings, the temporary array just isn't big enough to run the AC and charge the battery bank, its one or the other, adding an EV to the mix will definitely be overextending it lol)
 
Dabop said:
I run totally offgrid for power (and hopefully next year I will have a EV as well- fuel prices are getting crazy again, with even the cheap ULP at $2.20 a litre, and diesel at $2.40... )

My family are all looking at getting hybrid battery packs for their solar as electricity costs are skyrocketing as well (over a grand a year each, even with solar on the roof) and with LFP battery pack prices dropping in price,payback times of under three years are now becoming the norm in Australia

I haven't even seen an electric bill in several years lol- mines totally from the sun... (I do really need to get the rest of the panels up though- my little 'temporary' array is ok, but its gunna be a stinkin hot summer in Australia, and I suspect the A/C will be used a lot more this summer- I can use it during the day, but not in the evenings, the temporary array just isn't big enough to run the AC and charge the battery bank, its one or the other, adding an EV to the mix will definitely be overextending it lol)
Click to expand...

Yep, don't discount this when you buy your EV.

My usage went up from 1.5 kWh per day to 5.5 kWh and the difference was charging the 10kWh battery in the car 2+ times per week (while I was driving to work).

:)
 
Stout said:
Ya, that's a lot of jet fuel spent on getting to a conference that's, ostensibly, being held to limit the burning of things like jet fuel. No wonder the oil companies are laughing.
Click to expand...
Meanwhile the rest of the World is consuming 94 million barrels of oil every day.

Cars, planes, trains: where do CO2 emissions from transport come from?
Transport accounts for around one-fifth of global carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions... How do these emissions break down? Is it cars, trucks, planes or trains that dominate?

Road travel accounts for three-quarters of transport emissions. Most of this comes from passenger vehicles – cars and buses – which contribute 45.1%. The other 29.4% comes from trucks carrying freight.

Aviation – while it often gets the most attention in discussions on action against climate change – accounts for only 11.6% of transport emissions. It emits just under one billion tonnes of CO2 each year – around 2.5% of total global emissions
Click to expand...

I hate it when people make arguments based on innuendo rather than relevant facts and figures. All aviation accounts for only 2.5% of total global emissions. Nearly 4 times more comes from us as we drive our cars or take buses. There's only one COP per year so the emissions from plane trips to and from it must be less than 0.1% of the total global emissions per year, yet 'skeptics' latch onto the supposed irony of it as if this tiny number has any significance. I suppose you would rather they didn't have the conference at all, and then we would 'save' less than 0.1% while not doing anything else to curb our polluting ways. Great plan that one...
 
novaphile said:
Yep, don't discount this when you buy your EV.

My usage went up from 1.5 kWh per day to 5.5 kWh and the difference was charging the 10kWh battery in the car 2+ times per week (while I was driving to work).

:)
Click to expand...

All factored in....
I currently have a measly 1.5kw of 'temporary' panels, that generate about 7.8kwh a day in spring and autumn, about 6.5kwh a day in summer and about 6kwh a day in winter (the summer heat (often 38C-42C) really kills the panels output, something many don't know- putting them in a hot sunny desert is a REALLY bad idea lol)

Sitting in the shed, I have another 16.5kw of panels, making a grand total of 18kw (picked up 72 250w panels secondhand from an installer, cost under two grand in total) with the total 18kw of panels up on the roof of the house, that will give me over 90kwh a day in total generation, even in the worst conditions (pouring rain, 100% black cloud cover) I will still be up over 30kwh a day generated- an EV won't tax this system at all... (it is designed to run my workshop as well as the house, and has to take welders, lathe and a mill when required)

Coupled with 20kwh of LiFeYPO4 LYP lithium cells (much better temperature range than LFP LiFePO4 ones- which start to charge taper over 40C cell temps, my LYP's don't start to reduce charge rates until they are over 65C!!!) and a 12kw inverter that peaks at 36kw for up to 20 seconds, an EV is not an issue at all...
Just need to get the panels out of the shed and on the roof of the house....
Once it has a roof to put them on that is lol
 
Cosmic Yak said:
You either misread or misunderstood my post.
The post of yours I responded to seemed to be saying that it was all talk and no action. My post showed that, in fact, action is taking place.
You replied about 'word play', and added a further claim about 'pledges': I fail to see the relevance of this, with regard to my post. My point is that there is a move towards renewables, that is more than just word play, hopes or vows.
Click to expand...


No, I understood what you said. My point is that the the Cop28 would like to make it seem as if fossil fuels are being phased out when in reality they aren't. The alleged move towards renewables isn't what you think it is, and vows are just vows and pledges are just pledges.

You think that more renewables means "a move towards renewables." A move towards implies a move away from something, and that's not really happening. From your link:
"Renewables expansion is the major contributor to CO2 emission reductions up to 2030 in the NZE Scenario."
A scenario is no better than a hope, a vow or a pledge.
 
Last edited:
Joe Scarborough, former Republican, now at the MSNBC, defends Biden after Trump's "Drill, drill, drill" promise at the Fox News town hall Tuesday:

By they way, what a stupid thing to say, "Drill, drill, drill." What a stupid thing to say. You can tell he doesn't even read the newspapers. And the people applauding that don't even read the newspapers. U.S. oil production, record highs! We are drilling more and producing more oil, whether you like it or not. We are drilling more oil now than the Saudis, getting more oil out of the ground than the Saudis, getting more oil out of the ground than Russia. What are you gonna drill with, your teeth? We're already doing it, but that just shows how stupid he is. And I've gotta say this: People who applaud 'drill, drill, drill', how stupid they are, because that's what we're doing right now. In fact, record, Biden's administration - a lot of people on the left aren't going to like this - they're, like, their presidency has seen more oil production than any other presidency in the U.S. history. And yet they applaud 'drill, drill, drill'.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-says-wouldnt-dictator-day-one-rcna128288 (MSNBC, Maddow Blog, Dec 6, 2023)
Click to expand...


Just in case anybody's still wondering why Biden is losing young voters ...
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but I don't know. I didn't ask them. I just saw that Biden is losing support from young voters and then I saw Scarborough's peculiar defense of Biden, one that I can't believe will appeal to most young voters. Instead, it appears to be an appeal to Trump voters whom he is telling that Biden is much better at drilling, drillng, drilling than Trump.
A new Harvard poll finds Joe Biden is losing ground among likely voters under 30, a group that was crucial to his win in 2020
Biden's Lost His Rizz Among Young Voters, Poll Finds (Rolling Stone, Dec 5, 2023)
Click to expand...
Less than half of young Americans plan to vote in 2024, Harvard poll finds (Spectrum News NY1, )
Youth climate group urges Biden to declare a climate emergency ahead of 2024, as president struggles with young voters (CNN, Dec 5, 2023 )

Would a choice between drill, drill, drill and a presidency that has seen more oil production than any other presidency in the U.S. history appeal to you if you were young?
Do you think it would appeal to these guys?
Judge sides with youth in Montana climate change trial, finds two laws unconstitutional (MinnesotaReformer, Aug 14, 2023)
 
Last edited:
Skeptical Greg said:
Not that I was wondering, but losing them to who? Or, are they just not going to vote?
Click to expand...

If they don't, it's very bad news for Biden.

They should be the prime focus of the election - they have up to 20 votes left in them, unlike voters Biden/Trump's age who have 3 or 4 if they're lucky.
 
dann said:
....

Would a choice between drill, drill, drill and a presidency that has seen more oil production than any other presidency in the U.S. history appeal to you if you were young?
Click to expand...

It would depend on whether or not I felt driven ( which I probably would have 50 years ago ) by the consumerism that drives the fossil fuel industry. Something that a majority of young voters don't seem to have a problem with.

Sure they give a loud voice to " save the planet " but don't seem to have a will to give up their toys.
 
Last edited:
What is wrong with those toys is the fact that fossil fuels are used to manufacture and run them. That is something you cannot stop by means of your choices as a consumer.

It's controlled by the manufacturers of those toys, and the consumers don't have a say in what kind of power is used in the manufacturing of the toys or in generating the power that is used to run them.

So feel free to expose those young people to your disdain and blame them for global warming, but it will only serve to make them embrace Trump and his drill, drill, drill, which seems to be already happening.

Biden has made it clear that he won't do anything at all to limit CO2 emission.
 
Last edited:
Roger Ramjets said:
All aviation accounts for only 2.5% of total global emissions. Nearly 4 times more comes from us as we drive our cars or take buses. There's only one COP per year so the emissions from plane trips to and from it must be less than 0.1% of the total global emissions per year, yet 'skeptics' latch onto the supposed irony of it as if this tiny number has any significance. I suppose you would rather they didn't have the conference at all, and then we would 'save' less than 0.1% while not doing anything else to curb our polluting ways. Great plan that one...
Click to expand...

So what? Fact is, tens of thousands of people flying to a conference to complain about fossil fuel use is hilarious whereas people driving to work and the grocery store, not so much.

It's 2023, hold this thing by video conferencing. This is part of a world without fossil fuels will look like.
 
dann said:
Biden has made it clear that he won't do anything at all to limit CO2 emission.
Click to expand...

Three things of particular note -

1) There are limits to what he actually can do, legally, and the Democratic Party actually concerns itself with staying within legal grounds.

2) With that in mind, the Biden Presidency is following the Trump Presidency and part of what that means is that they're both responsible for fulfilling legal agreements made by the Trump Administration and that their efforts to change things are limited by the Trump Administration's government-wide efforts to plant ideological cronies (and get rid of those who were not) and place problematic judges into positions of power.

3) Despite that, the Biden Administration has made very extensive investments to limit carbon dioxide emissions, especially future emissions, and has sought to do a number of things along those lines (much as an annoying number of them have been blocked), so your statement is very much in error.

Biden isn't anywhere close to perfect when it comes to the subject, of course, but that bit of lashing out is counterproductive, at best.


To add to that a little -

EPA Marks One Year of Progress Under President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act

Today, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) marks one year of progress implementing President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act, the most ambitious climate law in U.S. history and a core pillar of Bidenomics and the President's Investing in America Agenda. Since the legislation was signed into law, EPA has moved swiftly to put a historic $41 billion dollars to work to reduce emissions, build a clean economy, lower energy costs for American households and businesses, create good-paying union jobs, and advance environmental justice across the country.

“President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act is the game-changer America needed for climate action,” said EPA Administrator Michael S. Regan. “The EPA team has been hard at work designing innovative programs to cut emissions in every sector of our economy, while empowering communities across the country with the resources to take decisive action. We are centering environmental justice in everything we do, ensuring communities on the frontlines of the climate crisis are benefiting from the public health, resilience, and economic opportunities unleashed by this transformative legislation. This is Bidenomics in action – achieving our ambitious climate and clean energy goals while investing directly in the wellbeing and prosperity of hard-working Americans.”

EPA’s Inflation Reduction Act programs are helping meet President Biden’s goals of reducing greenhouse gas emissions 50-52% below 2005 levels in 2030 and achieving net zero emissions by no later than 2050.

<snip>

Looking Ahead to Year Two

EPA made significant progress in the first year of implementing the historic Inflation Reduction Act and has laid a strong foundation to continue delivering robust results in year two. In the coming months, the agency will award billions in additional funding to states, cities, Tribal governments, community-based organizations, and other grassroots leaders on the front lines of combatting climate change and build a stronger, cleaner economy for all Americans. EPA will launch numerous additional cutting-edge Inflation Reduction Act programs to curb harmful methane emissions, reduce air pollution at ports and in surrounding communities, promote low-carbon construction materials, improve air quality at schools, and put more clean vehicles on America’s roads. EPA will remain steadfastly committed to delivering on President Biden’s Justice40 Initiative to ensure every community benefits from progress under the Inflation Reduction Act.

Americans are already witnessing how the Inflation Reduction Act is spurring private sector investment, accelerating state and local action, and delivering concrete evidence of clean energy progress across the country. Together, these investments will generate economic growth, contribute to the revitalization of American manufacturing, and create good paying union jobs that strengthen America’s middle class. This has been a historic year, and EPA will keep its pace in the second year of implementation to continue delivering on the vision and opportunities for people and the planet established by President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act.
Click to expand...

One can certainly complain that not enough has been done, but the blame for that falls pretty squarely on Republicans, just like it has for decades. Democrats do share a portion of the blame, of course, but nowhere close to as clearly.

This is the EPA that the Trump Administration was working to invert its purpose, for reference.
 
Last edited:
dann said:
Maybe, but I don't know. I didn't ask them. I just saw that Biden is losing support from young voters...

Less than half of young Americans plan to vote in 2024, Harvard poll finds
Click to expand...
This not good news, but not for the reasons you think.

A major contributing factor to the decline in planned youth participation since 2019 were ten-point declines in Republicans (66% to 56%) and independents (41% to 31%) expecting to vote. Democrats only lost two percentage points since last cycle, dropping from 68% to 66%...
Click to expand...
Fewer young republicans voting is good for Biden, right?

But what about independents?
In a field with the independent candidates, Biden’s lead increases to eight points among registered young voters and 16 points among likely voters.
Click to expand...
More good news.

Now for the bad...
Around 70% of college graduates planned on voting, roughly equal to what polling found in 2019, but college students saw a 13 percentage point drop and young Americans not in college and without a degree saw a eight percentage point drop
Click to expand...
At least smart people still intend to vote...

When current and potential independent candidates like conspiracy theorist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., leftist Cornel West and Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., are included in the poll, 29% of young Americans pick Biden, 25% pick Trump and 10% pick Kennedy,
Click to expand...
:boggled:

The real reason many are jaded with the current administration's performance has nothing to do global warming. It's only themselves they worry about.
While 65% of young Americans generally believe their finances are either very or fairly good, 48% said the national economy was “fairly bad” and 22% said it was “very bad.”
Click to expand...

Partisanship abounds...
Meanwhile, two-thirds of young Trump supporters said their vote was based on loyalty to the GOP primary frontrunner compared to 35% who said they supported Trump because of their opposition to Biden.
Click to expand...

Trump was more trusted than Biden when it came to immigration policy (34% to 31%), “strengthening the working class (31% to 34%), crime and public safety (32% to 29%), crime and public safety (29% to 32%), national security (37% to 27%), the economy (25% to 40%) and the Israel-Hamas war (29% to 25%).
Click to expand...
:boggled: :boggled: :boggled:

That's right folks, according to this poll the man who literally attempted to overthrow the democratically elected government with a violent insurrection is more trusted by young people on crime and public safety, national security and the Israel-Hamas war.

OTOH,
Biden held the advantage over Trump when it came to protecting democracy (39% to 27%), abortion (39% to 24%), education (39% to 25%), climate change (39% to 19%), health care (36% to 26%), gun violence (35% to 25%) and the war in Ukraine (33% to 29%).
Click to expand...
By far the biggest lead Biden has over Trump among 'young' people is... climate change (AKA Global Warming).

So to recap,

- Biden only lost 2% of young democrats, while young republican participation dropped by 10%. Biden gained 8% of independent voters.

- Biden is favored over Trump on Global Warming by 39% to 19%.

And somehow this is spun as Biden losing ground with young people because he isn't doing enough about Global Warming.

In reality the biggest losses were due to 'the economy' and 'national security'. What can we make of this? Many young people are stupid. So stupid that 10% of them want that doddering old antivax nutcase Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as their president.

However,
The bad news is that fewer young people intend to vote in this election compared to the Biden-Trump election of 2020. The good news is there's still time...
Click to expand...
The poll was conducted last month, a year before the 2024 election. A lot can change in that time. The economy is improving, 'national security' is unlikely to be a big issue, and the Israel-Hamas war will probably be over. The Biden administration will no doubt be touting the progress it is making on many fronts, so young people will (hopefully) be better informed by then. Trump's approval rating will continue to slide among independents as more dirt comes out in court. I don't think Biden has too much to worry about - apart from staying fit and healthy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom