Global warming discussion III

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I see the great lakes are starting to freeze earlier than usual

And last summer they had ice remaining longer than usual
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and Alaska was warmer than usual....what do you make of that Arnold??? could they be connected?? :rolleyes:

Record North Pacific temperatures threatening B.C. marine ...
www.cbc.ca/.../record-north-pacific-temperatures-threatening-b-c-marine-s...
3 days ago - The North Pacific Ocean is setting record high temperatures this year and ... Peterson says an El Niño warm water ocean current should arrive in ... could make their way north again, after first being spotted off Alaska in 2005.

Ocean warming picks up speed, hits warmest temperatures ...
www.dailyastorian.com/.../ocean-warming-picks-up-speed-hits-warmest-t...
5 days ago - University of Hawaii study suggests that rapid warming of ocean has resumed ... Temperatures exceeded those of the record-breaking 1998 El Niño year, ... just north of Papua New Guinea to the Gulf of Alaska,” said Timmermann. ... This sets up a long-term blocking pattern off the West Coast, giving us ...

The Gulf of Alaska is unusually warm, and weird fish are ...
www.washingtonpost.com/.../the-gulf-of-alaska-is-unusually-warm-and-wei...
Sep 15, 2014 - A skipjack tuna caught off the Copper River in Alaska. There had ... "They are letting the ocean warm up rapidly, and stay warm." The change in ...

Warm ocean temps force tens of thousands of walruses out ...
q13fox.com/.../warm-ocean-temps-force-tens-of-thousands-of-walruses-...
Oct 1, 2014 - Point Lay, near where the walruses gathered, is on the Arctic Ocean ... The WWF says other large haul-outs have been reported to the west of Alaska on ... on September 17, the sixth-lowest amount of Arctic sea ice on record.
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here's why

Warm Arctic, Cold Continents
Changes in the Arctic Are Hitting Closer to Home

arctic_atmosphere_december_300.png

Arctic atmospheric pressue. The low Arctic pressure field is shown by purple colors in the figure for December 1968–1996. Strong Polar Vortex winds circle this pressure field, trapping cold air in the Arctic regions. In December 2009, this pattern broke down, Polar Vortex winds weakened (green colors) and cold Arctic air (which parallels the color contours) flowed southward. Download here. (Credit: NOAA) It’s a puzzle: How could warmth in the Arctic produce frigid conditions elsewhere?
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Learn something Arnold about your planet and how it works

http://www.noaa.gov/features/02_monitoring/warmarctic.html

We've been discussing the Arctic dipole for a few years now....are you not paying attention??
 
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And why do you think that is in any way significant Arnold??

Did you read this?? Frequent Arctic dipole conditions are a function of a warming Arctic. The weakening jet stream bring air normally trapped in the Arctic Vortex further south - so Alaska is warm and Florida shivers as it did last year as well.

Warm Arctic, Cold Continents
Changes in the Arctic Are Hitting Closer to Home
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http://www.noaa.gov/features/02_moni...armarctic.html

We've been discussing the Arctic dipole for a few years now....are you not paying attention??
The weakening jet stream and warming Arctic due to AGW is causing cold excursions as the Polar Vortex becomes a very wavy beast.

dn26278-2_1199.jpg


Currently Alaska and the west coast are cooking and the interior of the US a bit cooler than seasonal so the lakes get a jump on the ice formation. Nothing mysterious, atmospheric physics.
We've changed the radiative balance - there is a lot of energy in the oceans and atmosphere, more water vapor, = wilder weather and because the fronts are stalling out....the situation persists....just ask California.

Or Denver lasdt week how wild it can get...

 
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You guys are a strange bunch .... if there is less ice somewhere in the world you jump up and down and proclaim global warming

But if there is more ice than normal you pretend it means nothing
 
No - we explain the atmospheric physics of why there is more ice in a specific location.
This isn't rocket science but if you CHOOSE to be ignorant of your world nothing we can do to change it if you refuse to read the science which is easy to understand.

There is more surface in the Antartic...but less ice mass....the world is tilted and northern hemisphere will get cold - where that cold moves to is up to other forces at work.
The jet stream is weakened, the cold normally in the high Arctic moves south on occasion...it has done it before, it is doing it more often because the Arctic is warming faster than other areas thanks to Arctic amplification.

What's strange is you know so little yet want to participate in a climate thread in a Science and Medicine foru,. What occurs is you end up looking foolish.

More ice on the Great Lakes after a very cold winter last year should be no surprise at all nor is it.
Only to you. Warm Oceans, Cold Continents....known phenomena getting more frequent.

"Arnold Martin...you know nothing" to quote an interesting TV series...that also invokes Winter is Coming....

Globally tho.....it's getting warmer, we're responsible.......even Rex Tillerson gets it.....is he wrong????

rex tillerson admits global warming is real - YouTube
Video for rex tillerson acknowledges global warming► 4:13► 4:13
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkuyY2FFR7c
Jul 22, 2012 - Uploaded by ken mataya
rex tillerson admits global warming is real, his solution? not reduce carbon - adapt! but keep burning that oil!
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Now Rex has taken the first step in dealing with the problem..he thinks it's an engineering and adaptation problem.
Others disagree with that policy.
This is the discussion that needs to be had and IS being had worldwide.

Policy of what to do about it ....not if the problem is real...that's outright foolish these days
.....you got there yet? or still hanging with the flat earthers?
 
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Arnold Martin said:
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You guys are a strange bunch .... if there is less ice somewhere in the world you jump up and down and proclaim global warming

But if there is more ice than normal you pretend it means nothing
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You haven't been paying very close attention, this isn't accurate in the least. What we do get excited about are long-term trends and the underlying factors that foster these trends on a global scale. Short-term, local trends not very interesting, anomalous events, even less so. Long-term, global trends and patterns are very interesting.
 
Arnold Martin said:
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You guys are a strange bunch .... if there is less ice somewhere in the world you jump up and down and proclaim global warming

But if there is more ice than normal you pretend it means nothing
Click to expand...
You obviously forget that AGW is global, not local. So if you add up all the ice we loose in some places, and all the ice we gain in other places, and figure out the net gain or loss, and track that over long term, you will see that long term is dramatically less ice on average due to global warming.

What you are trying to do is throw out an ice cube in the Sahara desert and loudly proclaim how cold it is.:rolleyes: That kind of cheap argument is for fools and politicians. It won't work here.
 
Arnold Martin said:
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You guys are a strange bunch .... if there is less ice somewhere in the world you jump up and down and proclaim global warming

But if there is more ice than normal you pretend it means nothing
Click to expand...
What actually happens, of course, is that when there's cold weather anywhere you pop up to tell us about it. What you don't do is tell us what you infer from whatever it is.

Just what do you infer from this?
 
Great Lakes Historical Ice Cover
http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/ice/

That's maximum cover since 1973, total and by lake. I haven't found earliest-onset data yet. It would be interesting to have daily data, since this ice might melt again if things warm up and we can't rely on Arnold Martin to keep us informed. That would be unfair.

Good data on cover is only available from 1973, but there must be reliable first-onset data from long before that - these are busy lakes and sailors will take an interest.
 
The unthinkable....

Geo-engineering: Climate fixes 'could harm billions'

26 November 2014

By David Shukman
Science editor, BBC News

Schemes to tackle climate change could prove disastrous for billions of people, but might be required for the good of the planet, scientists say.

That is the conclusion of a new set of studies into what's become known as geo-engineering.

This is the so far unproven science of intervening in the climate to bring down temperatures.

These projects work by, for example, shading the Earth from the Sun or soaking up carbon dioxide.

Ideas include aircraft spraying out sulphur particles at high altitude to mimic the cooling effect of volcanoes or using artificial "trees" to absorb CO2.

Long regarded as the most bizarre of all solutions for global warming, ideas for geo-engineering have come in for more scrutiny in recent years as international efforts to limit carbon emissions have failed.

Now three combined research projects, led by teams from the universities of Leeds, Bristol and Oxford, have explored the implications in more detail.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30197085
 
macdoc said:
The unthinkable....



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30197085
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Jesus. It took me all of about two minutes of thinking upon first hearing about geoengineering to conclude it is a really bad *********** idea. I mean, AGW is a problem of unintended consequences arising from tinkering with a complex system. Trying to fix that by tinkering with a different aspect of the system and not expecting more unintended consequences is just the height of idiocy.
 
Except we are already doing unplanned experiment and it's starting to bite.

The one I like is whitenening....microbubbles in the ocean to alter albedo. Controllable at least.
 
macdoc said:
Except we are already doing unplanned experiment and it's starting to bite.

The one I like is whitenening....microbubbles in the ocean to alter albedo. Controllable at least.
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I'd be more comfortable with white roofs and other white surfaces on land
 
The sulphur aerosol idea is particularly stupid, we've spent billions over the last few years trying to reduce sulphur emissions because of the devastation caused by acid rain.

The very small scale experiment with iron filings dumped into the sea wasn't exactly a great success, and unless anyone develops a novel new process then artificial trees are going to be rather energy intensive.

The least risky strategy remains trying to stop putting CO2 into the air in the first place.
 
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