Global warming discussion III

[macdoc]

Even maybe the 6+ degree C warming that basically makes the majority of the planet uninhabitable by humans.

Over statement.

The tropics will simply expand ( as they are now). Be a challenge but humans are very resilient. Not so much mid and northern latitude biomes.

Over time ...loss of the ice ( thousands of years ) will reshape the coastlines big time.

it's the mid latitudes and northern latitudes plus mountain islands that are and will get hammered.

SHort of active removal of CO2...we ain't going back to Kansas - but by the same token within the century ...we're not going extinct through climate change...
But it will be a messed planet...with or without climate change.

Africa will triple in population.

 

[Trakar]

Over statement.

The tropics will simply expand ( as they are now). Be a challenge but humans are very resilient. Not so much mid and northern latitude biomes.

Over time ...loss of the ice ( thousands of years ) will reshape the coastlines big time.

it's the mid latitudes and northern latitudes plus mountain islands that are and will get hammered.

SHort of active removal of CO2...we ain't going back to Kansas - but by the same token within the century ...we're not going extinct through climate change...
But it will be a messed planet...with or without climate change.

Africa will triple in population.

We can certainly, with will and wealth, help the tropics migrate much faster than it naturally could, but it won't be the tropics we have/had. Think more cool swamps. high latitude, stormy, long-night winters, muggy, long, dog-day summers (there are geologic precedents). Gradually, the lessening polar/equator temp difference will slow circulation speeds, leading weather to become much more sporadic than the patterns that we are more familiar with. We can really only talk about such times in very broad and ambiguous terms, as we don't have detailed information about similar periods in the past. The big problem is that the current climate event is occurring at an accelerating and already nearly unprecedented rate of change (outside of a very few major impacts/tectonic events over the last Billion years or so).

I only hope we monkeys prove to be more clever than we appear, you have to admire our sense of humor though. "Sapiens.sapiens," seriously!?

ROFLOL

 

[macdoc]

If the Gulf Stream stops or slows dramatically - gonna be VERY interesting times. Record cold ocean in the western North Atlantic and ice bergs off the North Eastern states in April.....
If the North Atlantic drift slows - certain high latitude islands and nations are in for some wild swings and round abouts.

We have crazy stalled ridge in the Pacific , off the charts warmth on the west coast where a cold current used to dominate, the Pacific cooking in the middle and Alaskan temperatures hitting records along the coast.

 

[bit_pattern]

If the Gulf Stream stops or slows dramatically - gonna be VERY interesting times. Record cold ocean in the western North Atlantic and ice bergs off the North Eastern states in April.....
If the North Atlantic drift slows - certain high latitude islands and nations are in for some wild swings and round abouts.

We have crazy stalled ridge in the Pacific , off the charts warmth on the west coast where a cold current used to dominate, the Pacific cooking in the middle and Alaskan temperatures hitting records along the coast.

The worst consequence will be hearing the Haig's of this world crowing that the ensuing cold proves their ice-age woo

 

[macdoc]

I guess if you are an Icelander or Norwegian he might have a point.
West Coast North America not so much.

 

[Dancing David]

I guess if you are an Icelander or Norwegian he might have a point.
West Coast North America not so much.

Midwest US, not so much either, dead corm and beans. Unless rainfall stays very stable

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Midwest US, not so much either, dead corm and beans. Unless rainfall stays very stable

Not so great for the great plains states either. Texas Oklahoma Kansas in particular. We are on the edge already.

 

[macdoc]

and it's snowing in Toronto with icebergs off the northeastern states....

 

[lomiller]

Over statement.

The tropics will simply expand ( as they are now). Be a challenge but humans are very resilient. Not so much mid and northern latitude biomes.

Over time ...loss of the ice ( thousands of years ) will reshape the coastlines big time.

it's the mid latitudes and northern latitudes plus mountain islands that are and will get hammered.

SHort of active removal of CO2...we ain't going back to Kansas - but by the same token within the century ...we're not going extinct through climate change...
But it will be a messed planet...with or without climate change.

Africa will triple in population.

AFAIK the tropics are more stable but temperatures can still go up as ocean temperatures rise. In the more extreme warming scenarios parts of the globe do see wet bulb temperatures beyond the limits for human survival.

Granted it’s probably too large an increase to really happen but see the second image for the peak wet bulb temperatures under warming of 10 Deg C. The highest values in North America are actually centered on the Midwest and Great Lakes and potentially deadly periods of extreme wet bulb temperatures extended from the Gulf of Mexico almost all the way to Hudson Bay.

http://web.science.unsw.edu.au/~stevensherwood/wetbulb.html

 

[Trakar]

AFAIK the tropics are more stable but temperatures can still go up as ocean temperatures rise. In the more extreme warming scenarios parts of the globe do see wet bulb temperatures beyond the limits for human survival.

Granted it’s probably too large an increase to really happen but see the second image for the peak wet bulb temperatures under warming of 10 Deg C. The highest values in North America are actually centered on the Midwest and Great Lakes and potentially deadly periods of extreme wet bulb temperatures extended from the Gulf of Mexico almost all the way to Hudson Bay.

http://web.science.unsw.edu.au/~stevensherwood/wetbulb.html

Some best guesses suggest that the desert band will expand ahead of an expanding tropics pushing pole-ward:

http://www.livescience.com/10472-deserts-grow-tropics-expand.html

https://www.ipcc-wg2.gov/publications/SAR/SAR_Chapter 3.pdf

http://www.iges.org/people/Shukla's Articles/1996/Effect on.pdf

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/impacts.htm

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~dargan/111/111_08.pdf (slide "Hadley cell widening")

 

[BrooklynBaby]

So, when are all of the "global warming" non-deniers going to actually do something to help them survive the imminent dystopian future they are predicting? I mean, if I thought the seas were actually going to start rising any day now, I would be moving inland and storing large supplies of food, fuel, guns, and ammunition. I don't see liberals doing any of those things. Instead, what I see them doing is trying to raise taxes and get rich off of carbon credits. Liberals are talking the talk, but walking an entirely different walk.

 

[Tony Stark]

So, when are all of the "global warming" non-deniers going to actually do something to help them survive the imminent dystopian future they are predicting? I mean, if I thought the seas were actually going to start rising any day now, I would be moving inland and storing large supplies of food, fuel, guns, and ammunition. I don't see liberals doing any of those things. Instead, what I see them doing is trying to raise taxes and get rich off of carbon credits. Liberals are talking the talk, but walking an entirely different walk.

LOL at your pathetic strawman. Non science denying crackpots don't think that disaster is going to happen "any day now". Rather that the effects of climate change will gradually get worse if nothing is done about it.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

LOL at your pathetic strawman. Non science denying crackpots don't think that disaster is going to happen "any day now". Rather that the effects of climate change will gradually get worse if nothing is done about it.

So, really there is nothing we need be concerned about right now. Some day the seas will rise because of "global warming". Some unspecified day in the future its going to happen, just not right now. I think I understand. Liberals never need to prepare for a dystopian future because it is never going to happen in near enough proximity to "now" to require planning for it.

 

[Tony Stark]

So, really there is nothing we need be concerned about right now. Some day the seas will rise because of "global warming". Some unspecified day in the future its going to happen, just not right now. I think I understand. Liberals never need to prepare for a dystopian future because it is never going to happen in near enough proximity to "now" to require planning for it.

Another pathetic strawman. It won't be "some unspecified day in the future" where it suddenly happens. The effects will gradually, over decades, get worse and worse.

 

[tyr_13]

So, when are all of the "global warming" non-deniers going to actually do something to help them survive the imminent dystopian future they are predicting? I mean, if I thought the seas were actually going to start rising any day now, I would be moving inland and storing large supplies of food, fuel, guns, and ammunition. I don't see liberals doing any of those things. Instead, what I see them doing is trying to raise taxes and get rich off of carbon credits. Liberals are talking the talk, but walking an entirely different walk.

Most people concerned with climate change and doing something about it do not predict an imminent dystopian future. Furthermore, trying to mitigate the negative impacts by taking steps now is a much better plan than what you suggest. What you suggest is remarkably short sighted and eminently selfish. That they are advocating different measures than what you would do if you believed the science is in no way evidence that they don't believe it.

You're not only attacking a straw man, you're failing at it.

So, really there is nothing we need be concerned about right now. Some day the seas will rise because of "global warming". Some unspecified day in the future its going to happen, just not right now. I think I understand. Liberals never need to prepare for a dystopian future because it is never going to happen in near enough proximity to "now" to require planning for it.

You'd be real useful on a sinking ship. It is happening now, with more and more happening every day and the most extreme consequences in the future. That it isn't sudden enough for your liking is neither here nor there.

There is plenty to be concerned about right now to help address the problems in the future.

You do not understand.

 

[xjx388]

LOL at your pathetic strawman. Non science denying crackpots don't think that disaster is going to happen "any day now". Rather that the effects of climate change will gradually get worse if nothing is done about it.

Ok then, what are the loud and proud non-science deniers doing in their daily lives to mitigate that gradual problem? I'd be willing to bet not much.

 

[tyr_13]

Ok then, what are the loud and proud non-science deniers doing in their daily lives to mitigate that gradual problem? I'd be willing to bet not much.

Appeal to hypocrisy. This has nothing to do with if it's real or a problem or not.

Besides that, trying to reduce the rate of greenhouse gas emissions on large scales is doing something.

 

[Tony Stark]

Ok then, what are the loud and proud non-science deniers doing in their daily lives to mitigate that gradual problem? I'd be willing to bet not much.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I drive a fuel efficient car, use only LED lightbulbs, and would never even consider voting for a climate change denier (ie most Republicans).

 

[xjx388]

Appeal to hypocrisy. This has nothing to do with if it's real or a problem or not.

If a person believes that it's a real problem with potentially severe effects and that person also complains loudly about other people who "deny science," then I would expect them to live their lives according to what the science is telling them. Electric cars, solar power -taking every step they possibly can to mitigate the problem. Otherwise, yes, they are hypocrites and it indicates that they are every bit as much a part of the problem as the "science deniers," they castigate.

Besides that, trying to reduce the rate of greenhouse gas emissions on large scales is doing something.

How exactly are they advocating that? All I see is political point scoring. If the Dems were actually concerned, they would join the Reps in endorsing an aggressive nuclear power program.

 

[Tony Stark]

I thought Al Gore said in 2006 we only had 10 years to get "global warming" under control. To me he looks like the L. Ron Hubbard of this movement, so he would know. He also says the "science is settled", so to me that means that climate scientists should be able to add up all of the CO2 being released into the atmosphere every day and tell us when it will reach critical mass and the world will start ending. Instead, I sense they are all standing around scratching their heads and wondering why it isn't getting hotter right now, because the "settled science" says it should be. I'm a skeptic, so I think about things like this. To be frank, I'm not sensing a whole lot of skepticism coming from the other side of this issue.

Also, Al Gore said recently that science deniers should be "punished". I have a friend who thinks the idea of time bending when an object approaches the speed of light is just pure nonsense. He actually giggles when I bring it up. What kind of punishment should he receive from Al Gore's enforcers?

What part of gradually getting worse do you not understand? There isn't going to be a "critical mass" where suddenly the world starts ending. And non-science denying crackpots do not think that. Your strawman are truly pathetic.

And the world IS getting hotter right now.