Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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Belz... said:
Are you suggesting that the earth's heat output has increased, somehow ?
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I have no idea. But certainly the ocean isn't as warm as it is just from the sun. The earth itself has a temperature, that the surface doesn't effect at all.

How much of the ocean heat content is from the earth's heat?

And if the earth stopped warming the ocean, how may millions of years would it take to cool?
 
How do you know the earth under an ocean isn't? Or under the ice? I read the number of volcanoes under the oceans is huge, and most of them are completely unknown to us.
 
r-j said:
How do you know the earth under an ocean isn't? Or under the ice? I read the number of volcanoes under the oceans is huge, and most of them are completely unknown to us.
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A Volcanoes energy output is far too small to be noticed in the oceans. It would take 2 million Mount St. Helens scale volcanic eruptions to supply the amount of heat the oceans have accumulated over the last 50 years. If you look at more typical sized eruptions it would take upwards of 100 million eruptions the size of the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption to supply that much energy.

Less than 1% of the earth’s energy budget comes from geothermal sources inside the planet.
 
lomiller said:
A Volcanoes energy output is far too small to be noticed in the oceans. It would take 2 million Mount St. Helens scale volcanic eruptions to supply the amount of heat the oceans have accumulated over the last 50 years.
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Prove it, or retract.

There is no physical way your statement is true, especially if you consider the amount of CO2 that 2 million eruptions would release.
 
That much volcanic activity would add 24,000,000,000,000 tons of carbon to the atmosphere. That is almost equal to all the normal volcanic output for the last 12,000 years or so.

Wait, that means in the last 12000 years there would have been the equivalent of 2 million eruptions, so maybe volcanoes ended the ice age.

Ha ha!
 
Yearly CO2 from volcanoes = 200000000 tons x 12000 years = 24000000000000 tons of CO2 = 666 years of current human output of CO2
 
Study: Arctic getting darker, making Earth warmer
21 hours ago by Seth Borenstein
Study: Arctic getting darker, making Earth warmer

The Arctic isn't nearly as bright and white as it used to be because of more ice melting in the ocean, and that's turning out to be a global problem, a new study says.
With more dark, open water in the summer, less of the sun's heat is reflected back into space. So the entire Earth is absorbing more heat than expected, according to a study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
That extra absorbed energy is so big that it measures about one-quarter of the entire heat-trapping effect of carbon dioxide, said the study's lead author, Ian Eisenman, a climate scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California.
The Arctic grew 8 percent darker between 1979 and 2011, Eisenman found, measuring how much sunlight is reflected back into space.
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more
http://phys.org/news/2014-02-arctic-darker-earth-warmer.html

one more bit for the modellers to wrestle with tho I'm sure albedo is factored in.

For the less informed albedo changes like this are a primary driver of climate change tho not on the same scale as AGW changes.
 
r-j said:
Prove it, or retract.

There is no physical way your statement is true, especially if you consider the amount of CO2 that 2 million eruptions would release.
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2 million St Helens class eruptions is physically impossible to go unnoticed, that was kind of the point. The problem here is your refusal to let go of this type of physically impossible "alternative" to greenhouse gas emissions.
 
The 24000000000000 tons of CO2 is just from the everyday output. A supervolcano can put a lot more in, and fast.

Why are there no climate events that last for centuries, or lomger, from ancient volcanoes? Since CO2 stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years.
 
r-j said:
The 24000000000000 tons of CO2 is just from the everyday output. A supervolcano can put a lot more in, and fast.

Why are there no climate events that last for centuries, or lomger, from ancient volcanoes? Since CO2 stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years.
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Big Volcanic eruptions are very apparent in the climate record, not as warming because volcanic CO2 emissions are tiny compared to what humans emit. The 1-5 year cooling effect from their aerosols is very much evident however.

For something truly massive like the Siberian Traps CO2 becomes an issue, of course that event is thought to be the main driver of the largest mass extinction in the earths history...
 
macdoc said:
much more than 1,000 times I would think.

Total mass of Earth's atmosphere 3×1019
Total mass of Earth's oceans 7.3×1022

thats 3 magnitudes right there and then you have latent heat = beyond my pay scale
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Not much more, I think. The specific heat capacity of water and air differ by less than an order of magnitude.
 
lomiller said:
Big Volcanic eruptions are very apparent in the climate record, not as warming because volcanic CO2 emissions are tiny compared to what humans emit.
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If currently volcanoes are calculated at 1% of our emissions, current level of output, then every hundred years volcanoes equal a year of our current high output. That means in the last 4000 years it easily equals our total output so far. If CO2 takes thousand of years to leave the atmosphere, (doubtful, but it is claimed), then a huge amount of just the normal yearly volcano output from the last 10,000 years, is still in the air.

But a huge volcano puts out far more quickly. When the cooling ends, we should see warming from the CO2. I mean a really big volcano.

If the CO2 theory is correct, it should alter the climate for thousands of years after the event. Not only is there this huge input, the normal amount doesn't just stop. It might take 5 thousand years, but even so it should keep going up.
 
According to Plass CO2 going up should warm the planet. And the CO2 stays around, because it's in the stratosphere where plants and weathering do not effect it.

A large increase, or even a slow but steady increase, should cause warming. Which causes the oceans to outgas even more CO2, leading to more warming. In fact, until weathering removes the CO2, the planet stays out of the glacier period of the ice age.

That's what Plass says. Do you disagree?
 
Not much more, I think. The specific heat capacity of water and air differ by less than an order of magnitude.
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Um that seems odd given the density - and besides you are starting 3 magnitudes below.
Still not sure what your point is here.
 
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