Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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For Italy and India - solar is now the least costly of all power sources....and that is without subsidy.

bit of a stunner

Deutsche Bank just released new analyses concluding that global solar market will become sustainable on its own terms by the end of 2014, no longer needing subsidies to continue performing.
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http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...dia-italy-with-more-countries-coming-in-2014/

I must admit it has moved forward faster thanI thought but base load remains a problem.
 
macdoc said:
For Italy and India - solar is now the least costly of all power sources....and that is without subsidy.

bit of a stunner



http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...dia-italy-with-more-countries-coming-in-2014/

I must admit it has moved forward faster thanI thought but base load remains a problem.
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Here's a $8,633 residential system:


Reviews Description: This Grape Solar 2,300 Watt Kit generates 210kWh to 420kWh of electricity per month for use in your residence. The kit consists of Grape Solar CS-P-230-DJ PV modules, PVP2000 Inverter and roof-top mounting system for mounting the modules. This system is easy to install, and the ideal size for future expansion. You have the option to generate a portion of your electricity consumption or the entire daily/monthly consumption of your household. Unlike other generators, once the system is installed, there are no mechanical moving components; therefore, maintenance is not an issue. The kit is eligible for receiving federal/state/local rebates and incentives. A complete high-performance solar PV system designed for USA/Canada/countries that use 120/240 AC, 60HZ. This kit combines Grape Solar's industry-leading solar panels with a top-of-the-line inverters and racking, specially designed for the highest system-level performance and most cost effective solution. Package DC power output: 2,300 Watt. (10) Grape Solar CS-P-230-DJ 230W Poly-Si panels. Panels are UL, CEC and FSEC certified. Panel output tolerance: 0-Percent +3-Percent. Panel dimension 64.9-Inch by 39.0-Inch by 1.57-Inch. Total roof space required: 180-squar feet. Impact resistance: hail diameter of 28mm with speed of 86km/h. (1) PVP-2000 inverters from PV Powered. AC/DC system disconnects and 10 year warranties are included. (1) set of Regular Roof Mount racking system, wind load up to 80mph. Recommended Electrical Wiring: 2 strings x 5 panels/string with PVP-2000 inverter. Combiners, cables, and fuses are not included. Solar Panels: 25 years power output warranty, 10 year material and workmanship warranty. Inverter: 10 year warranty. Racking: 10 year warranty.

I'm surprised I did not know it had moved this far this fast.

It would still be a 10 year payback for me but it's looking more feasible.
 
BobK said:
I just tried it now and it is working. Maybe he was down for a while.
Here is the link again. Link
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A personal blog dedicated to crankery is hardly a reputable and reliable source of information. This entire line of discussion is irrelevant to this thread. If you are curious about German solar power public policy and programs, it would probably be best to start an independent thread about that.
 
CapelDodger said:
Arctic Warming May Not Be Altering Jet Stream: Study
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/new-study-questions-arctic-warming-extreme-weather-links-16375

On the other hand :
More data required, I think.
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Well, I generally don't do blog science, it tends to be inaccurately stated and is generally unreliable.

That said, I certainly agree that there are very few areas of science that would not benefit from more data.

The challenge to the Arctic amplification studies and changing jet stream can be found at: http://barnes.atmos.colostate.edu/FILES/MANUSCRIPTS/Barnes_2013_GRL_wfigs_wsupp.pdf

Francis Response to challenge is currently only present (AFAIK) in the WAPost meteorology blog. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...k-linking-arctic-warming-and-extreme-weather/), it is what it is, but I don't consider it more than unsupported commentary until it is published in a reputable journal.

Of potential connected interest: http://www.intellicast.com/National/Wind/JetStream.aspx

And: http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v3/n8/full/nclimate1978.html

http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_1119_en.pdf
 
JihadJane said:
If runaway global warming manifests, human extinction is definitely on the cards. Today, one in eight birds, one in four mammals, one in five invertebrates, one in three amphibians, and half of all turtles face extinction.
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We have the capacity to create entirely artificial environments if things go really bad, and we will. We've built Las Vegas just to show the world who's boss now, so if the world pushes back we'll withdraw. Even a few million is more than enough for a viable population.

So no extinction for humans due to AGW. Not that I care, you understand, it's just that I don't see it happening.
 
CapelDodger said:
We have the capacity to create entirely artificial environments if things go really bad, and we will. We've built Las Vegas just to show the world who's boss now, so if the world pushes back we'll withdraw. Even a few million is more than enough for a viable population.

So no extinction for humans due to AGW. Not that I care, you understand, it's just that I don't see it happening.
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Withdraw to where?
 
CapelDodger said:
We have the capacity to create entirely artificial environments if things go really bad, and we will. We've built Las Vegas just to show the world who's boss now, so if the world pushes back we'll withdraw. Even a few million is more than enough for a viable population.

So no extinction for humans due to AGW. Not that I care, you understand, it's just that I don't see it happening.
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I agree, but I always felt that non-extinction was setting the bar pretty low, as far as goals for our species.

I was having this discussion with my dad a few years ago, and I think it helped him understand my perspective. Humans will survive, but let's plan for our grandkids to have something better.

The Donner PartyWP survived - but if they had been less greedy and accepted the advice of the experts, they wouldn't have had to eat their children. They could have thrived.
 
CapelDodger said:
We have the capacity to create entirely artificial environments if things go really bad, and we will. We've built Las Vegas just to show the world who's boss now, so if the world pushes back we'll withdraw. Even a few million is more than enough for a viable population.

So no extinction for humans due to AGW. Not that I care, you understand, it's just that I don't see it happening.
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That may well be a delay of extinction, not necessarily the escape from extinction.
 
RandyN said:
Farmers' Almanac Predicts 'Bitterly Cold' Winter
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"The Maine-based Farmers' Almanac, not to be confused with the New Hampshire-based Old Farmer's Almanac ..."
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Heaven forbid :).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_almanac
"Weather prediction has always been a major feature of the Farmers' Almanac. The Almanac Publishing Company claims readers of the Farmers’ Almanac have attributed an 80 to 85 percent accuracy rate to the publication’s annual forecasts. However independent studies that retrospectively compare the weather with the predictions have not shown them more accurate than chance."
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Is there no room left in the world for romance?

"The 197-year-old publication that hits newsstands Monday ...", well colour me shocked, "... blah blah Super Bowl blah blah bitter cold blah blah Ice Age ...", OK I made the last bit up but you can see where I'm going with this.
 
CapelDodger said:
On the other hand :
“Because Arctic amplification has emerged from the noise of natural variability only in the last 15 year or so, it is not surprising that its influence would not drive 30-year trends in a statistically significant way,” she said.
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More data required, I think.
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What is this "noise of natural variability"? Sounds a rather linear concept for such a nonlinear system...???
 
On another forum, I'm beginning to dip my toe into AGW conversations. There is a person there who thinks that he's obviously "got me" with the below questions, and I have an instinct that he's full of it, in terms of what he thinks he's proving. But, I don't have the climate research chops to know where to go to refute them.

I'm reaching out to my fellow JREF'ers to see if you guys could help me?

Here's his last post to me:

"Still trying to BS your way around the questions? Let me repeat them for you.

1. Provide collected real world data showing current anomalous sea levels beyond normal fluctuations?

2. Some data supporting oceans acidification beyond normal fluctuations?

3. Show me the data supporting the ice caps are melting?

4. If the ice caps are not melting what is the source of the sea level rise?
Perhaps you can provide some data that will answer this question?

Documentation using actual data, not scaremongering articles, quips and accusations.

Like I said, I won't hold my breath."
 
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