• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Give it a rest, Fred!

Ask yourself where Fred gets his permission to hate!

Oooooh the B-I-B-L-E
Its the only book for me,
And the only book for me,
Is the B-I-B-L-E

ummm, how then do you explain that 100% of people who are actual Christ followers who read the bible dont translate it this way.

If Satan wanted to twist around the words in the bible to get people to think they're going to heaven based upon his disgusting beliefs, would you still be saying, "look look, the bible is tragicly wrong and evil"?


btw isn't it supposed to go-

the b-i-b-l-e
yes thats the book for me
i stand alone on the word of God
the b-i-b-l-e
BIBLE!

maybe your parents just had a different way of singing it.

fred phelps is an idiot indeed, oh dang i forgot thats blasphemy of the holy spirit now im going to hell for eternity. (sarcastic tone)

2 things fred phelps doesn't adhere to, that blasphemy of the holy spirit requires me to see a miracle that is from God. Also, it takes a lifetime to commit blasphemy of the holy spirit. It's not that blasphemy of the holy spirit is an "unforgivable sin" ,theres no such thing, its that whoever commits blasphemy of the holy spirit will not be forgiven, because they wont ever accept forgiveness.
 
just read the wikipedia, says that Fred Phelps believes that anyone outside of the so called "westboro baptist church" wont recieve salvation....like we haven't heard that one before from people who are now dead.
 
I used to get worked up over the guy, over time I've come to share some of the views of one of his sons (quoted below). Fred is a kind of religious victim: a crazy person trapped in a world that often embraces his kind of insanity as holiness.

How many people ever confronted him with the notion that there are no gods who speak to people or reveal their will; no holy books with divine knowledge; no prophets, saints, or messiahs who are not merely people trying to find their way like the rest of us. Probably not many, and maybe they would not have mattered.

But now we have a sad and crazy old man who has found a home and followers in Bible based faith. He is not so much an argument against Christiainity or even faith. He is an argument against the notion that Christianity, belief, and faith are good for everyone.

Despite his hatred and actions I have trouble finding any feelings about him at all. He is in a sense, already dead.

A letter from a son who left

This is a letter Mark Phelps wrote last year to citizens of Topeka and northeast Kansas. It is printed at his request. It was received at The Capital-Journal on May 19, 1993. Contacted by telephone in California July 7, 1994, Mark Phelps said the letter still represents his feelings. He also cautioned people against taking the letter out of context, saying there is "gentleness" in the context of the letter and a hope that the community can better understand Fred Phelps based on what the letter contains.
"Many people have been asking me, over the past several weeks, about my father. They want to know what I think about him and 'What is he really like?' People's interest in what I think baffles me, but after careful consideration, I decided to respond.

What is he like? Well, it's been 19 years since I left home, but his behavior still appears to be the same. He considers his environment to be against him without admitting, acknowledging or taking responsibility for how he contributes to that. He likes to show himself as being moral, pro-family, pro-Bible, but his actions just don't add up to that. I believe in God and the Bible, and my father's behavior doesn't fit the description of behavior that would show in the life of one who loves God; behavior characteristics such as Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control. Instead, my father's behavior characterizes, I believe, Hate, Outbursts of Wrath, Contention, Jealousy, Vengefulness, Misery, Harshness, and Selfish ambition. He mis-states the truth about his own behavior, about others, about the Bible, with apparent ease and regularity. He behaves with a viciousness the likes of which I have never seen. He accepts no genuine accountability in his life and is subject to no one. His lifestyle betrays the sacred trust of what a pastor, husband, father and grandfather should be. I suppose if a comparison were made between the life of Jesus Christ and my father, there would not be much to compare.

I also realize that my father is a very unstable person who is determined to hurt people. And because he is so bound to be hateful and hurtful, and because he's so untrustworthy, I believe it's a good idea to respond to him with caution much like the caution used when dealing with a rattlesnake or a mad dog. You see, the causes that he crusades for, including the Bible, are not the issue here. He simply wants to hate and to have a forum for his hate. If the causes he focuses on were the issue, that is, if they really meant something to him in his heart and he meant for the things he does to be for the good, his behavior would not be what it is. He would not betray his message with his behavior. But, when he needs to, to vent his hate, he readily goes outside the bounds of any previously stated 'value' or 'cause' he may have supported. He experiences no moral dilemma when it comes to doing what he wants to do. If it weren't the homosexuals, it would be something else.

Yet checks and balances on his behavior are appropriate, on the part of the community, in order to at least confine his destructive behaviors and to limit his influence. I believe that Topekans are making a good effort to try and stop him and should continue to do so. He can seem very intimidating. He can use foul language and come across with a booming voice to the community, but the truth is, like the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls the curtain back, instead of this big powerful individual, it's only a small, pathetic old man.

I feel sorry for my father as I would for anyone who displays this kind of hate and evil viciousness. These can only be the manifestations of tortured, injured and agonizing souls."

-- Mark W. Phelps
http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps03.shtml
 
He likes to show himself as being moral, pro-family, pro-Bible, but his actions just don't add up to that.

The problem with the argument that your suggesting is that "christianity" is not necesarily Christ. The bible is not salvation, it is a book that tells part of the story of salvation, we get to make our own stories, the word of God is not kept contained in a book.
 
The problem with the argument that your suggesting is that "christianity" is not necesarily Christ. The bible is not salvation, it is a book that tells part of the story of salvation, we get to make our own stories, the word of God is not kept contained in a book.
The words are a quote from his son, who sounds pretty much like a Christian to me.

I'm not suggesting anything except maybe that if he was not so hopelessly crazy he'd be a good tool for evangelizing and spreading the good word.

"christianity" is not necesarily Christ. The bible is not salvation

Careful there, someone is going to put you in their sig line. :m1helmet:

I don't really see how Christianity can claim the Bible is the inerrant revealed word of God without making it the graven image you seem to believe it is not. If it is really perfect it should be an object of worship.
 
The problem with the argument that your suggesting is that "christianity" is not necesarily Christ. The bible is not salvation, it is a book that tells part of the story of salvation, we get to make our own stories, the word of God is not kept contained in a book.

Christianity without Christ would be Paulianity, but still with Christ (or at least a Logos). Christ: from Latin Christus, from Greek Christos, literally "anointed" translated from Hebrew Messiah. Whether or not Christ is embodied as 'the son of god in flesh', just 'the son of god' in some ethereal form, or the 'spirit of salvation' (something akin to 'God's forgiveness') does not matter. Christianity is based on the concept of a Christ and would cease to have cohesion without such a 'story'. It was this that allegedly separated them from the so-called pagan religions and cults of similar conceptualization.

Not that I'm trying to say that you are completely incorrect. At least you seem to get it.

Christianity was a derivative of various types of religion present at the time - mainly Greek Mystery cults with some Hebrew Messianic tenets. This is why there is a rather sudden transformation of the God of the Old Testament (the vengeful God of Abraham who paid particular attention to only the Hebrew tribes) to the God the New Testament (the elusive loving God of, say, some Greco-Roman minor mythologies). People are often mistaken in thinking that Greco-Roman religions always worshipped a pantheon of gods. Many times, it was only one (or a select few) which was considered 'the true god or goddess'.

With that, it is easy to see why there is conflict between the literalists and the 'spiritualists' (for lack of the proper term) in Christianity. Strip away the Gospels and you mainly have a religion that deals with spirit and soul, not the crucifixion (which can be seen as a symbolic gesture and is supported by early Christian symbology using 'the lamb' or 'the dove', both traditional sacrificial animals). This caused a great rift until the early Roman Catholic Church codified the religious tenets at the Council of Nicea wherein they went for the more 'historical' inflection rather than the more 'esoteric' one. Personally, I think that they chose poorly.

So, Christ would still be equated with Christianity, but not in the way that history has unfolded. Instead of Christ being a god-man (Jesus) who was literally crucified to absolve sin, it would be a spirit (The Holy Spirit) which acts as intermediary between God and Humans to absolve and enlighten (Mystery cult in almost full glory).
 
Christianity without Christ would be Paulianity

Anybody else think Christianity would have been a lot better without Paul sticking his oar in? The man suffered from delusions following cranial trauma from falling off a horse! That's hardly divine revelation.

Oh horrors. Madonna just fell off a horse. I hope she's not going to turn into a prophet.
 
I'm glad he doesn't find anything wrong with celebrating other people's deaths. When he dies (I'm predicting stabbed in the groin by a trannie hooker he tries to cheat) I'm going to throw a party. There will be beer, and pizza, and those soft pretzels you heat up in the oven, and a make-your-own sundae buffet. And a marathon of John Waters movies.

Whoa. That sounds pretty cool. Maybe he'll die soon, and I can have it as a Halloween party.
I'm there, but no Pink Flamingos. :D

If it were my choice I'd go with one or two Waters flicks and add Rocky Horror, La Cage aux folles and My Beautiful Launderette.
 

Back
Top Bottom