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Giuliani & "the Big Mo"

Mephisto

Philosopher
Mephisto
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
6,064
I can't understand the appeal to Rudy - I do understand that many people favor him because he was mayor of NYC during 9/11, but what exactly did he do that any other person wouldn't have done (minus, Ray Nagrin).

Didn't Bush also enjoy some popularity because of 9/11? Posing in a hard hat with firemen on top of the WTC rubble only got him so far - will it be any different with Rudy?

Schneider: Giuliani's got the 'Big Mo'

POSTED: 9:33 a.m. EST, February 15, 2007

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Some candidates seem to be getting what the first President Bush once called "the Big Mo'' in the 2008 presidential race: momentum.

Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani told CNN's Larry King Wednesday that "yeah, I'm running" for president.

But he's not just getting in. He's also taking off.

Last month, the USA Today/Gallup poll had Giuliani and Sen. John McCain running neck-and-neck among Republicans nationwide -- 31 percent for Giuliani compared to 27 percent for McCain.

Now Giuliani has moved to a sizeable lead over Arizonan McCain in the USA Today/Gallup poll -- 40 percent for Giuliani to 24 percent for McCain.

The latest USA Today/Gallup poll was conducted February 9-11. The polls' margin of error was plus-or-minus 5 percentage points.

What's driving it?

Giuliani is 9/11. That's what gave him the image of strong, decisive leadership. The same image President Bush used to have.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/14/schneider.giuliani/index.html
 
Momentum is a big thing. Real momentum is even better. Has the media love affair with Obama made him a serious challenger to Clinton yet in the polls?


As for what people see in Giuliana, he's tough, decisive, and extremely pragmatic. In other words, completely unfit for office. But he is the kind of person who draws "i disagree with him on this, this, and this but I will vote for him anyway".
 
corplinx said:
Momentum is a big thing. Real momentum is even better. Has the media love affair with Obama made him a serious challenger to Clinton yet in the polls?
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You're right about that! However, I feel the early momentum (in both Giuliani's case and Obama's case) might be detrimental as the campaign wears on. Can either stand the intense scrutiny as Nov 2008 draw near?
 
A big plus for Rudy is that he could well win the New York electoral vote from Hillary. Arizona's going Republican anyways, so McCain has little to offer from that perspective.
 
Mephisto said:
I can't understand the appeal to Rudy - I do understand that many people favor him because he was mayor of NYC during 9/11, but what exactly did he do that any other person wouldn't have done (minus, Ray Nagrin).
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Well, you could also look at NYC pre and post Guiliani, particularly the murder and crime rate. Although 9/11 is probably the biggest component to Guiliani's current appeal, many people are also crediting him with turning NYC around.

His biggest selling point for me is that, like Ah-nuld, he's a Republican that is not beholden to the religious right or the social conservatives.
 
Momemtum.

An invisible force that can only be seen by political analysts and sportsacters.


If momentum was really so important, no one would ever lose it. It is yet another form of post-diction that acts like cold-reading -- if someone won, then they had momentum. If they lose, then the momentum must have shifted to the other side -- and I can tell you where, as long as it is after the fact.

Um. That didn't actually discuss Guliani, did it? Ok:

The current appeal of Guliani may stem at least partially from the desire to find someone "electable." They see him as able to take votes from the moderate to near-left without losing much of the right -- meaning he can match up well (theoretically) against a candidate like Clinton II.
 
boooeee said:
His biggest selling point for me is that, like Ah-nuld, he's a Republican that is not beholden to the religious right or the social conservatives.
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I'm not too sure about that.

"Rudy Giuliani has been one of the most vocal wanna-be censors of art. First, in the fall of 1999, he attacked black English artist Chris Ofili and his elephant dung adorned work "The Holy Virgin Mary," which was part of advertising mogul Charles Saatchi's and the Brooklyn Museum of Art's "Sensation" exhibit. The mayor called the painting "sick stuff," "perverted" and "blasphemous." This year, Rudy attacked black photographer Norma Cox's series of photographs: "Yo Mama’s Last Supper." In these photos Cox poses nude, in Christ's place, in Biblical scenes. Guiliani called the series "outrageous,” "disgusting" and "anti-Catholic." Like the Nazis, who suspended monetary support for avant-garde artists, Giuliani also, albeit unsuccessfully (so far), has tried to stop funding the institutions who've presented controversial art."

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id1637/pg1/index.html

(edited to add) if I'm not mistaken, Guiliani is a staunch Catholic - something that used to worry the far right about Kennedy.
 
boooeee said:
His biggest selling point for me is that, like Ah-nuld, he's a Republican that is not beholden to the religious right or the social conservatives.
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If he plans to be elected a Republican in 2008, he will become beholden to them...IMHO as always.

Much, much too early. Mayors and Sentators and Representatives have been declaring right and left...but 4 of the last six Presidents (Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Shrub) came from the Governor's Office.

I'd keep an eye on this Mitt Romney fella...
 
Rudy doesn't just seem like a leader, he often demonstrated he is a leader.

He first gained noteriety as a federal prosecutor in Manhattan that helped break the mob.

He cleaned up NYC after Dinkins and Koch shot it to hell.

He lead from the front during 9/11.

But, he hasn't got a hope in hell.

He is pro-gun control, gay rights and abortion. The far Right he needs to win the nomination simply won't stomache that.

I love the little guy. He's a fantastic leader in a crisis. But, I wouldn't vote for him as president. He's freakin crazy. He needs a disaster or some major task to take control over and accomplish.

Otherwise, he gets antsy and takes up crusades. Like when he killed all the squeegee guys.

I'd like to see him as Attorney General or head of FEMA, but not president.
 
Mephisto said:
I'm not too sure about that.

"Rudy Giuliani has been one of the most vocal wanna-be censors of art. First, in the fall of 1999, he attacked black English artist Chris Ofili and his elephant dung adorned work "The Holy Virgin Mary," which was part of advertising mogul Charles Saatchi's and the Brooklyn Museum of Art's "Sensation" exhibit. The mayor called the painting "sick stuff," "perverted" and "blasphemous." This year, Rudy attacked black photographer Norma Cox's series of photographs: "Yo Mama’s Last Supper." In these photos Cox poses nude, in Christ's place, in Biblical scenes. Guiliani called the series "outrageous,” "disgusting" and "anti-Catholic." Like the Nazis, who suspended monetary support for avant-garde artists, Giuliani also, albeit unsuccessfully (so far), has tried to stop funding the institutions who've presented controversial art."

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id1637/pg1/index.html

(edited to add) if I'm not mistaken, Guiliani is a staunch Catholic - something that used to worry the far right about Kennedy.
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Well it's all a matter of degree, isn't it? He's definitely to the left of Bush on social issues.

In regards to the article posted above, it should be pointed out that "censor" <> "withdraw funding". There's also a nice Godwin invocation there with "Like the Nazis, who suspended monetary support for avant-garde artists" ("Like the Nazis, who also wore pants....).

I do think that there are more important things for a mayor to spend his time on than to worry about piddly amounts being sent to local artists. However, based on the description of the artwork, it seems they were deigned to specifically to provoke this kind of reaction. It looks like they got what they wanted.
 
Donal said:
Otherwise, he gets antsy and takes up crusades. Like when he killed all the squeegee guys.
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RANT! You have to be the first person to lament the disappearance of the squeegee guys! I used to have to yell at them to make sure they didn't squirt that filthy stuff (I have no idea what they actually used) on my windshield, they never ask first. They would steal the squeegees from gas stations, which is why it's so hard to actually find a gas station in the city any more that actually has squeegees and fluid to wash the salt and bugs off your windshield. Don't see them much here in Chicago now that so many gas stations have simply eliminated the ability to wash your windows as you fill up.
 
As George Will once said, "You will pardon the American people if they get upset their tax dollars are being spent to defile their most sacred symbols."
 
Beerina said:
As George Will once said, "You will pardon the American people if they get upset their tax dollars are being spent to defile their most sacred symbols."
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Sacred to whom? I think the artists were making a perfectly valid point in a country that supposedly values freedom of speech and expression. If we can fund the rebuilding of Iraq, we can certainly fund controversial art.

Again, we should at least be happy enough that our society doesn't allow us to riot over a cartoon. :)
 
WildCat said:
RANT! You have to be the first person to lament the disappearance of the squeegee guys! I used to have to yell at them to make sure they didn't squirt that filthy stuff (I have no idea what they actually used) on my windshield, they never ask first. They would steal the squeegees from gas stations, which is why it's so hard to actually find a gas station in the city any more that actually has squeegees and fluid to wash the salt and bugs off your windshield. Don't see them much here in Chicago now that so many gas stations have simply eliminated the ability to wash your windows as you fill up.
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It was a little joke. But he has gone nuts. Chased out all my favorite establishments from Times Square.

He needs something to do. He won't just sit around waiting for things to break down.
 
Mephisto said:
Sacred to whom? I think the artists were making a perfectly valid point in a country that supposedly values freedom of speech and expression.
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Fine, would you mind if a couple of ex-cons jack off all over a picture of your mom in a museum? It's their form of artistic expression, via performance art, after all. :p

DR
 
I voted for him twice for mayor of NYC and I would seriously consider voting for him for President.

I know some people got on his case about it but I was okay with him bringing crime down to record lows and cleaning up Times Square and making it a tourist destination (along with their $$$) instead of several blocks of jerk-off booths.
 
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