Ghislaine Maxwell

[Vixen]

What has this got to do with the non-white collar crimes that Maxwell is on trial for?

From Google search:

There are many types of white collar crimes, but the following are the most common:
Corporate Fraud. ...
Embezzlement. ...
Ponzi Schemes. ...
Extortion. ...
Bankruptcy Fraud.

I would say Epstein and Maxwell getting each victim to recruit more was a kind of sex Ponzi scheme and I am fairly sure there is blackmail and extortion involved based on a whole collection of video tape and camera equipment found at Epstein premises, largely removed before the FBI arrived. Where Epstein got his $500,000,000 in assets on his death from, given he was just a poor boy from Brooklyn, with faked qualifications as a maths teacher, is also rather an interesting question.

The fact that some of the girls were underage seems to be the 'Al Capone' excuse the FBI have to arrest her because the main complainants are virtually all in their twenties.

You carry on believing this is just a simple case of underage sex from about twelve years ago and that Maxwell is just a common street criminal.

.

 

[smartcooky]

The fact that some of the girls were underage seems to be the 'Al Capone' excuse the FBI have to arrest her because the main complainants are virtually all in their twenties.

You carry on believing this is just a simple case of underage sex from about twelve years ago and that Maxwell is just a common street criminal.

You really don't get it do you?

These girls were victims of multiple sexual predators - preyed upon by people who paid two more sexual predators (Epstein and Maxwell) for the opportunity to rape under-aged girls.... yes, under-aged girls cannot legally consent to sex with an adult, so they were raped.

If she is found guilty, I hope they lock her up for a very long time!

 

[Vixen]

You really don't get it do you?

These girls were victims of multiple sexual predators - preyed upon by people who paid two more sexual predators (Epstein and Maxwell) for the opportunity to rape under-aged girls.... yes, under-aged girls cannot legally consent to sex with an adult, so they were raped.

If she is found guilty, I hope they lock her up for a very long time!

Look, I have no wish to downplay Maxwell's appalling alleged crimes, which of course, are wicked, evil and deceitful. However, there is nothing to be gained by adding layers of 'appealing to the emotions' to it by calling it 'paedophilia' and 'child sex trafficking', conjuring up, as it does, visions of genuinely prepubescent children snatched off the street against their will, never to be seen again, and kept in captivity to be brought out whenever there was a party. Fact is, almost all of them were consenting adults, who turned up to these events and travelled on the so-called 'Lolita Express' quite voluntarily and returned home afterwards, yet they came back again and again, presumably for the money and gifts. Guiffre admits to recruiting about two hundred girls herself. Quit with this 'child kidnapping' stuff. It is bad enough as it is.

 

[Samson]

Clearly Vixen is bringing far more to this thread than the aging moralists from the New world(s)._

 

[bruto]

From Google search:

There are many types of white collar crimes, but the following are the most common:
Corporate Fraud. ...
Embezzlement. ...
Ponzi Schemes. ...
Extortion. ...
Bankruptcy Fraud.

I would say Epstein and Maxwell getting each victim to recruit more was a kind of sex Ponzi scheme and I am fairly sure there is blackmail and extortion involved based on a whole collection of video tape and camera equipment found at Epstein premises, largely removed before the FBI arrived. Where Epstein got his $500,000,000 in assets on his death from, given he was just a poor boy from Brooklyn, with faked qualifications as a maths teacher, is also rather an interesting question.

The fact that some of the girls were underage seems to be the 'Al Capone' excuse the FBI have to arrest her because the main complainants are virtually all in their twenties.

You carry on believing this is just a simple case of underage sex from about twelve years ago and that Maxwell is just a common street criminal.

.

You seem to be implying that the added complexity and financial overlay to the sex crimes is a mitigating, rather than an aggravating, factor. I don't somehow think that's what you mean, but you seem to imply that because most of Maxwell's crimes were "white collar," it changes the collar color of all of them. It's true enough, I think, that Maxwell was more than a common street criminal, but that added dimension doesn't somehow transform what she's said to have done. Pointing out that she was also a blackmailing fraud does not transform her other crimes. I think you need to beware of a "sorites" fallacy here (if you take grains of sand off a pile, when does it stop being a pile, etc.). Pointing out that not all of her victims were legally children, and that they were children largely by legal definition, does not somehow mean that they weren't.

I sort of get what you're saying, but I am not sure why an "Al Capone" prosecution is not a pretty good idea here. It's true that Capone was guilty of far more than he was charged with, but the charge that got him was not made up.

 

[LondonJohn]

I would say Epstein and Maxwell getting each victim to recruit more was a kind of sex Ponzi scheme

Wow. "A kind of sex Ponzi scheme". So it was all just financial embezzlement? I'm guessing that the girls - many (or, quite probably, most) of whom were minors at the time - were either some sort of collateral or some form of "bait"?

The fact that some of the girls were underage seems to be the 'Al Capone' excuse the FBI have to arrest her because the main complainants are virtually all in their twenties.

Wow (I can't even figure out a way to address this bit).

You carry on believing this is just a simple case of underage sex from about twelve years ago and that Maxwell is just a common street criminal.

Oh it was far, far more than "just a simple case of underage sex". And Maxwell is none of those things. Right now. But if/when she's convicted, she'll be convicted as one of the more vile and extreme offenders of recent years in the USA.

 

[LondonJohn]

I sort of get what you're saying, but I am not sure why an "Al Capone" prosecution is not a pretty good idea here. It's true that Capone was guilty of far more than he was charged with, but the charge that got him was not made up.

The main reason why Capone was remembered for being brought down on tax evasion charges - rather than anything concerned with his widespread (and far more serious) mob-related activities - was that tax evasion was the only charge the State knew it could prove in court.

Mob bosses have always been notoriously difficult to prosecute, owing to the *reluctance* to testify on the part of anyone who knew anything about the mob-related crimes. By contrast, it's relatively easy to look at the business activities of a person, compare it with their tax filings, and determine whether or not they've paid enough tax.


But in any case, to imply (as Vixen did) that it's somehow unfair of the federal authorities to focus upon the underage victims in the Maxwell case... is a pretty breathtaking reach.

 

[jimbob]

Reprehensible - you're stating a position that amounts to apologism for statutory rape... even if that is not what you meant

Vile as statutory rape is, that qualifier looks to be unnecessary, given the (on the face of it plausible) threats of violence.


And yes, I am prejudging the case, because there's enough evidence in the public domain to be sure she is guilty of the child sex trafficking.

 

[Bob001]

Vile as statutory rape is, that qualifier looks to be unnecessary, given the (on the face of it plausible) threats of violence.

And yes, I am prejudging the case, because there's enough evidence in the public domain to be sure she is guilty of the child sex trafficking.

Many of the victims report that they were actually, forcibly raped, nothing "statutory" about it. If that happened once, and Maxwell had anything to do with it, all this mindless chatter about "mature" 14-year-olds goes out the window.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-he-raped-me-when-i-was-n1028011
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ghislaine-maxwell-rape-testify-evil-epstein
https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/epstein-threatened-to-feed-rape-victim-to-alligators-lawsuit-alleges/
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/03/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-florida-lawsuit

 

[GlennB]

Many of the victims report that they were actually, forcibly raped, nothing "statutory" about it. If that happened once, and Maxwell had anything to do with it, all this mindless chatter about "mature" 14-year-olds goes out the window.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-he-raped-me-when-i-was-n1028011
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ghislaine-maxwell-rape-testify-evil-epstein
https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/epstein-threatened-to-feed-rape-victim-to-alligators-lawsuit-alleges/
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/03/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-florida-lawsuit

If only Vixen had bothered to read such articles she wouldn't be assaulting our sensibilities with bilge about 'white collar crimes' and 'sex ponzi schemes'.

 

[smartcooky]

Clearly Vixen is bringing far more to this thread than the aging moralists from the New world(s)._

Yeah, we get it. You're clearly very comfortable with the idea that girls as young as 14 have been traded to old men for sex.

I think you're probably taken in by Maxwell's good looks and charm, but under that attractive appearance lurks a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

 

[Vixen]

Many of the victims report that they were actually, forcibly raped, nothing "statutory" about it. If that happened once, and Maxwell had anything to do with it, all this mindless chatter about "mature" 14-year-olds goes out the window.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-he-raped-me-when-i-was-n1028011
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ghislaine-maxwell-rape-testify-evil-epstein
https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/epstein-threatened-to-feed-rape-victim-to-alligators-lawsuit-alleges/
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/03/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-florida-lawsuit

You have to remember that attorney for the victims, Brad Edwards, did his own gumshoe work and it is thanks to his efforts (see his book) that a case that was seemingly closed as per Acosta, who granted Epstein a house arrest type sentence for a short period and 'indemnity' for anyone connected with what he was charged with (this included Maxwell, whom one of Edwards' clients, Virginia Guiffre/née Roberts successfully sued for defamation by calling her a 'liar') . Once Epstein was brought back to court, this time via New York, Edwards et al was able to unseal Maxwell's depositions re the Guiffre lawsuit and charge her for perjury and reinstate the same charges that Acosta had tried to bury. In some respects, Maxwell's lawyer is right that Maxwell is being pursued in place of Epstein who 'got away', as it were, as Maxwell split from Epstein way back when.

She is a glorified Madam in respect of Epstein's thriving prostitution ring. Yes, on paper she sexually assaulted some of these girls and should be rightly convicted if true.

Nonetheless, let's not take our eyes of the fact that it was Edwards who carried out a massive PR campaign on Guiffre and four or five others - including a Netflix documentary and a book - appealing for other 'victims' to come forward. Well, if you were once giving Epstein and his chums <ahem!> massages at $200 a go and attended the various alleged orgies, of course you'll come forward, knowing there is a huge pot of money available in compensation from the late Epstein's pot and Maxwell is swimming in huge sums of money as well.

 

[smartcooky]

Yes, on paper she sexually assaulted some of these girls and should be rightly convicted if true.

ON PAPER!!!?

 

[Vixen]

ON PAPER!!!?

The trial is not until July, so it is 'on paper' until then, even if you think you know all about the case from Netflix.

 

[smartcooky]

The trial is not until July, so it is 'on paper' until then, even if you think you know all about the case from Netflix.

Right. You don't understand what the idiom, "on paper" actually means.

"On paper" means in theory but not in reality. By using it the way you did, you inferred Maxwell didn't really do anything wrong.

Nonetheless, let's not take our eyes of the fact that it was Edwards who carried out a massive PR campaign on Guiffre and four or five others - including a Netflix documentary and a book - appealing for other 'victims' to come forward. Well, if you were once giving Epstein and his chums <ahem!> massages at $200 a go and attended the various alleged orgies, of course you'll come forward, knowing there is a huge pot of money available in compensation from the late Epstein's pot and Maxwell is swimming in huge sums of money as well.

So, you think rape victims are motivated to come forward by money

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ghislaine-maxwell-rape-testify-evil-epstein

"A woman who claims Ghislaine Maxwell raped her dozens of times – beginning when she was just 14 years old – says she is willing to take the stand and testify against Jeffrey Epstein’s ex-girlfriend. In an exclusive interview with Fox News, Jane Doe, who wishes to protect her identity, said Maxwell sexually abused her beginning in 1991 in Florida. She said the abuse continued until she was 16.

Maxwell was arrested Thursday on federal charges for facilitating and participating in sexual abuse acts with minors,

“She did rape me. I would say it’s more than 20 or 30 times,” she said. “She is just as evil as Jeffrey Epstein … She is a rapist.”

Jane Doe claims years of sexual abuse came to an end only after she became pregnant with Jeffrey Epstein’s baby. At age 16, she had an abortion.​

A virgin and a child at the time, Doe explained, Maxwell would use toys and penetrate her with her fingers.

“When this started, she told me that Epstein was getting upset because I kept bleeding, and that she was helping so that it wouldn’t hurt so much because it should be satisfying.”​

And you think these girls just made up stories for money

https://www.foxnews.com/media/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-araoz-ghislaine-maxwell-arreset

The attorney for Jeffrey Epstein accuser Jennifer Araoz told "The Story" Thursday that his client is relieved at the arrest of former Epstein girlfriend and longtime Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, who the attorney described as the "ringmaster" of Epstein's child sex ring.

"Ghislane Maxwell is a monster and she's now in custody. And that's a very good thing," Daniel Kaiser told host Martha MacCallum." "My client, Jennifer, is relieved -- as [are], I'm sure, all the victims of of Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Maxwell.

"Ms. Maxwell was the ringmaster, she was the architect of Jeffrey Epstein's sex ring," Kaiser went on. "She hid it. She maintained it. If not for her, the ring wouldn't have persisted for as long as it did and it would not have victimized as many people as it did, as many young girls, including my client."​

 

[Vixen]

Right. You don't understand what the idiom, "on paper" actually means.

"On paper" means in theory but not in reality. By using it the way you did, you inferred Maxwell didn't really do anything wrong.




So, you think rape victims are motivated to come forward by money

"A woman who claims Ghislaine Maxwell raped her dozens of times – beginning when she was just 14 years old – says she is willing to take the stand and testify against Jeffrey Epstein’s ex-girlfriend. In an exclusive interview with Fox News, Jane Doe, who wishes to protect her identity, said Maxwell sexually abused her beginning in 1991 in Florida. She said the abuse continued until she was 16.

Maxwell was arrested Thursday on federal charges for facilitating and participating in sexual abuse acts with minors,

“She did rape me. I would say it’s more than 20 or 30 times,” she said. “She is just as evil as Jeffrey Epstein … She is a rapist.”

Jane Doe claims years of sexual abuse came to an end only after she became pregnant with Jeffrey Epstein’s baby. At age 16, she had an abortion.

A virgin and a child at the time, Doe explained, Maxwell would use toys and penetrate her with her fingers.

“When this started, she told me that Epstein was getting upset because I kept bleeding, and that she was helping so that it wouldn’t hurt so much because it should be satisfying.”​

And you think these girls just made up stories for money


The attorney for Jeffrey Epstein accuser Jennifer Araoz told "The Story" Thursday that his client is relieved at the arrest of former Epstein girlfriend and longtime Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, who the attorney described as the "ringmaster" of Epstein's child sex ring.

"Ghislane Maxwell is a monster and she's now in custody. And that's a very good thing," Daniel Kaiser told host Martha MacCallum." "My client, Jennifer, is relieved -- as [are], I'm sure, all the victims of of Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Maxwell.

"Ms. Maxwell was the ringmaster, she was the architect of Jeffrey Epstein's sex ring," Kaiser went on. "She hid it. She maintained it. If not for her, the ring wouldn't have persisted for as long as it did and it would not have victimized as many people as it did, as many young girls, including my client."

Believe it or not, I am actually on Virginia Guiffre's side. However, I do like to get to the truth of a matter and not just get swayed by salacious sensationalism. Fairness and objectivity is the name of the game.

Anyway, Maxwell is due to be arrainged 16 April and will appear in person

US District Judge Alison Nathan tentatively scheduled Maxwell’s arraignment for April 16. “As requested by the defendant, the proceeding will take place in person,” the judge wrote in her order.

The teen girl alleges that Maxwell recruited her to give Epstein nude “sexualized massages” at his Palm Beach mansion from 2001 to 2004.

The jailed daughter of late media tycoon Robert Maxwell is now charged with eight counts related to the allegations of four then-underage victims who say she recruited them to be sexually abused by Epstein.

NY Post

 

[zooterkin]

Believe it or not, I am actually on Virginia Guiffre's side.

But not enough to actually spell her name right.

 

[Vixen]

But not enough to actually spell her name right.

Well done! You spotted a spelling mistake!

ETA: Her correct name is Giuffre.

 

[Samson]

Yeah, we get it. You're clearly very comfortable with the idea that girls as young as 14 have been traded to old men for sex.

I think you're probably taken in by Maxwell's good looks and charm, but under that attractive appearance lurks a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

I have reached the uncomfortable position of not being comfortable with anything the biological mass of human beings does in this world.
That includes Maxwell, judges, politicians and hypocrites.

 

[carlitos]

We can add Ponzi Scrme to the long list of misused terms here.

The only way that term would be analogous to this case would be if each man were promised multiple girls and then Maxwell was paying the longer-standing clients with new recruits brought by the newest men that just joined the scheme. It makes no sense.