Ghislaine Maxwell

[theprestige]

No, but I think it's a good practice.

I think it's a good rule of thumb, at least.

Guilt and innocence are legal concepts. We can choose to believe that someone committed specific acts even if they haven't been convicted of crimes. The evidence that Maxwell is a serial predator and sex trafficker is overwhelming, and it would be so even if the statute of limitations had passed for everything she did -- which apparently it has not.

There are legal concepts of guilt and innocence. These are mostly concerned with whether the state has adequately justified its proposal to infringe on someone's rights.

There are also social and personal concepts of guilt and innocence, which are concerned with other things.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Maxwell being "scapegoated" because Epstein committed suicide

Warning: contains picture of "sock/eye" trauma

 

[carlitos]

[Sad Trombone Sound]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Ghislaine Maxwell will remain in a New York jail after a federal appeals court on Wednesday rejected the British socialite's latest request for bail.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan also denied Maxwell's request for a hearing on what her lawyers called "horrific" confinement conditions at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. It did not explain its reasons.

...

Maxwell's lawyers have said she cannot properly prepare for trial because of sleep deprivation, a lack of potable water, a sewage stench in her cell, an inability to meet privately with her lawyers or keep jail guards from reviewing her confidential materials, and an underpowered computer to review evidence.

 

[bruto]

Ohno, an underpowered computer! Does the indignity never stop?

 

[theprestige]

I thought confidential meetings with lawyers was pretty much guaranteed.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I thought confidential meetings with lawyers was pretty much guaranteed.

I'm guessing the complaint is based on room supplied not being adequate (read opulent).

 

[Filippo Lippi]

No escape tunnels

 

[Planigale]

I thought confidential meetings with lawyers was pretty much guaranteed.

I think because she is on suicide watch she has to be observed every 15 minutes and there is a continual video feed, which is potentially problematic for confidential discussions.

She is under continual illumination without a proper day / night cycle. In most of the developed world her current conditions would be regarded as torture. Low light or infra red imaging would enable a proper sleep cycle along with observation.

At present she is legally innocent. She has been in solitary confinement for about a year. Under continual observation. Very limited opportunities for exercise. As above with disruption of sleep cycle. given the current restrictions on travel etc. The main reason for her continued incarceration is to force a plea deal. It is standard practice for US prosecutors. If they were sure they had enough evidence to prove guilt they would have proceeded to trial.

 

[gnome]

Isn't there a "speedy trial" rule in effect? Unless the defense has waived it themselves.

 

[carlitos]

Isn't there a "speedy trial" rule in effect? Unless the defense has waived it themselves.

• Don't forget the Covid lockdown slowing down the criminal justice system.
• After another minor (at the time) victim came forward, the prosecutors added another few charges this Spring. After that, Maxwell and her lawyers filed for a continuance. She actually asked for a continuance until 2022, but the judge is making them start this Fall.
• The years of continuances aren't just a ploy used by the Feds to pressure criminals like Maxwell; they are also used by criminals to stress out the witnesses against them. These young women now have to deal with even more waiting - months and years of stress preparing themselves for a trial date that seems to never come.

 

[gnome]

So the prosecution isn't delaying the case out of some perceived lack of confidence or to pressure the defense into a plea deal. Not delaying it at all, really.

 

[Trebuchet]

No escape tunnels

Or submarines.

 

[Planigale]

• Don't forget the Covid lockdown slowing down the criminal justice system.
• After another minor (at the time) victim came forward, the prosecutors added another few charges this Spring. After that, Maxwell and her lawyers filed for a continuance. She actually asked for a continuance until 2022, but the judge is making them start this Fall.
• The years of continuances aren't just a ploy used by the Feds to pressure criminals like Maxwell; they are also used by criminals to stress out the witnesses against them. These young women now have to deal with even more waiting - months and years of stress preparing themselves for a trial date that seems to never come.

The decision to add extra charges at a late date was that of the prosecution. They could have proceeded as was. The extra charges could then have been a separate case. The need to add additional charges make it seem like they are insecure that they could achieve a conviction on the evidence that have and therefore needed to add extra. They also knew that the defence would have no option but to seek time to evaluate the new charges. The strategy of waiting until the court case is close, then adding extra charges to delay the case is part of the psychological warfare prosecutors employ to get a plea deal. (Also making the legal costs greater for the defence adding financial pressure.) I won't be surprised if we get to late summer and suddenly another victim needs to be included.

Maxwell may be guilty. But even if so the current arrangements are inhumane. If guilty she would have the right to visitation, association, recreation; all currently denied. She is incarcerated on the basis of guilt by association. The prosecution have no evidence of great wealth, they argue because she mixed with multi-millionaires and was the daughter of a bankrupt multi-millionaire she must be a multi-millionaire. They have provided no evidence of the great wealth they use to justify her continued incarceration.

People say above that innocent until proven guilty is only a legal concept and not applicable to the public. But incarceration before trial is a legal concept. It is something legally innocent people should be protected from (like torture). The imposition on the legally innocent person should be the least needed, both in duration and severity. It should not be a negotiating ploy for the prosecutor.

 

[smartcooky]

Maxwell may be guilty. But even if so the current arrangements are inhumane. If guilty she would have the right to visitation, association, recreation; all currently denied. She is incarcerated on the basis of guilt by association.

No, she is incarcerated because of

1. The eye witness evidence against her

2. The fact that she is an extreme flight risk with multiple citizenships, one in particular that has a proven record of not extraditing fugitives from justice (think Roman Polanski, another high profile kiddie fiddler).

The prosecution have no evidence of great wealth, they argue because she mixed with multi-millionaires and was the daughter of a bankrupt multi-millionaire she must be a multi-millionaire. They have provided no evidence of the great wealth they use to justify her continued incarceration.

Really?

https://time.com/5868402/ghislaine-maxwell-net-worth-mystery-epstein-trial/

At the bail hearing, prosecutors said they’d identified more than 15 different bank accounts associated with Maxwell from 2016 to the present with balances ranging from hundreds of thousands of dollars to more than $20 million. She sold a Manhattan townhouse for $15 million in 2016 and still has one in London that she offered as a bail guarantee.​

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/r...iness-executives/ghislaine-maxwell-net-worth/

According to the indictment released by the FBI in the wake of her 2020 arrest, investigators found in excess of 15 bank accounts tied to Ms. Maxwell. The total balance was at least $20 million. The government also asserted that between 2007 and 2011 alone, at least $20 million was transferred from Jeffrey Epstein's accounts to accounts controlled by Ms. Maxwell.​

Looks like evidence of wealth to me!


While I think that the conditions under which she is incarcerated are harsh, they are not inhumane IMO.

Maxwell has lived a life of wealth, excess and privilege and has used that wealth and privilege to inflict harm on a large number of young girls - we may never know how many.

I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to have the slightest bit of sympathy for this piece of human garbage.

 

[abaddon]

I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to have the slightest bit of sympathy for this piece of human garbage.

Mmmm. See, I am all for getting the convicted out of incarceration. Give the convicted training in whatever skill and whatnot. Put them in a job after release. The whole nine yards in terms of rehabilitation.

But the likes of Maxwell? There is no salvation there. At all. If released, she would do it all again.

 

[Planigale]

No, she is incarcerated because of

1. The eye witness evidence against her

2. The fact that she is an extreme flight risk with multiple citizenships, one in particular that has a proven record of not extraditing fugitives from justice (think Roman Polanski, another high profile kiddie fiddler).



Really?

https://time.com/5868402/ghislaine-maxwell-net-worth-mystery-epstein-trial/

At the bail hearing, prosecutors said they’d identified more than 15 different bank accounts associated with Maxwell from 2016 to the present with balances ranging from hundreds of thousands of dollars to more than $20 million. She sold a Manhattan townhouse for $15 million in 2016 and still has one in London that she offered as a bail guarantee.​

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/r...iness-executives/ghislaine-maxwell-net-worth/

According to the indictment released by the FBI in the wake of her 2020 arrest, investigators found in excess of 15 bank accounts tied to Ms. Maxwell. The total balance was at least $20 million. The government also asserted that between 2007 and 2011 alone, at least $20 million was transferred from Jeffrey Epstein's accounts to accounts controlled by Ms. Maxwell.​

Looks like evidence of wealth to me!


While I think that the conditions under which she is incarcerated are harsh, they are not inhumane IMO.

Maxwell has lived a life of wealth, excess and privilege and has used that wealth and privilege to inflict harm on a large number of young girls - we may never know how many.

I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to have the slightest bit of sympathy for this piece of human garbage.

But it is not the wealth they know about which is the justification for incarceration. Since this can be monitored and was offered up as surety. It is the wealth they claim she has that they do not know about. *

I am not sure what the relevance of eye witness testimony is. This is perhaps the least reliable form of evidence. In all cases for which a suspect is charged I would expect there to be evidence. Merely having evidence that has not yet been tested in court is not justification for pre-trial incarceration. People charged with murder are given bail.

*ETA It is a bit of an anti-semitic trope the Jew with the hidden wealth.

 

[Planigale]

Mmmm. See, I am all for getting the convicted out of incarceration. Give the convicted training in whatever skill and whatnot. Put them in a job after release. The whole nine yards in terms of rehabilitation.

But the likes of Maxwell? There is no salvation there. At all. If released, she would do it all again.

This is very unlikely. The accusation of trafficking is specifically linked to Epstein who is now dead. There is no suggestion Maxwell herself had sex with under age women / girls. There is no suggestion she profited from this. Her wealth is not as far as I have seen in reports derived from criminal activities. It appears to be inherited. There is no suggestion that she has participated in criminal activities recently. All the accusations are historic related to her time with Epstein. I have no problems with the concept of her being punished for the crimes she is guilty of. But she should not be punished because you think she might do something in the future.

It is interesting you are more concerned with getting the convicted out of incarceration, but not those who have not been convicted.

FWIW I think this is a huge US issue, the majority of people incarcerated in New York are pre-trial. A driver for this is the pressure this puts on the accused to make a deal with prosecutors. Pre-trial detention in the US may be longer than any likely term if convicted.


https://www.prisonpolicy.org/research/pretrial_detention/

 

[Matthew Best]

But it is not the wealth they know about which is the justification for incarceration. Since this can be monitored and was offered up as surety. It is the wealth they claim she has that they do not know about. *

I thought it was just because she obviously has money, she also knows a lot of people with money, some of them abroad, she has three citizenships, she has already demonstrated that she is good at evading capture and living "off the grid",

Where did you see that the justification for incarceration was "the wealth that they claim she has that they do not know about"? Admittedly, she did buy her hideout mansion with cash so I guess that would also be a red flag.

 

[Bob001]

This is very unlikely. The accusation of trafficking is specifically linked to Epstein who is now dead. There is no suggestion Maxwell herself had sex with under age women / girls. .....

That's not true. Multiple women have accused her of assaulting them herself.

Other victims in Maxwell’s case include “Minor Victim-1” who was allegedly abused by both Epstein and Maxwell from 1994 through 1997, starting when she was 14, and Annie Farmer, who came forward as Minor Victim-2. Farmer said Maxwell groped her during an “unsolicited massage” at Epstein’s New Mexico ranch in 1996.

https://news.yahoo.com/underage-victim-accuses-ghislaine-maxwell-202503264.html

She is being held without bond because she went to extraordinary lengths to evade law enforcement, and has substantial resources that would allow her to do so again. If she could get to France, as a French citizen she would be untouchable forever. Why is this hard to understand?

 

[abaddon]

This is very unlikely. The accusation of trafficking is specifically linked to Epstein who is now dead. There is no suggestion Maxwell herself had sex with under age women / girls. There is no suggestion she profited from this. Her wealth is not as far as I have seen in reports derived from criminal activities. It appears to be inherited. There is no suggestion that she has participated in criminal activities recently. All the accusations are historic related to her time with Epstein. I have no problems with the concept of her being punished for the crimes she is guilty of. But she should not be punished because you think she might do something in the future.

It is interesting you are more concerned with getting the convicted out of incarceration, but not those who have not been convicted.

FWIW I think this is a huge US issue, the majority of people incarcerated in New York are pre-trial. A driver for this is the pressure this puts on the accused to make a deal with prosecutors. Pre-trial detention in the US may be longer than any likely term if convicted.


https://www.prisonpolicy.org/research/pretrial_detention/

Right. So you are simply willing to lie about the facts. Go right ahead. The facts remain that Maxwell did traffic minors and did abuse minors.

Clutch as many pearls as you wish. The facts are not going away.