Germs

[tesscaline]

To skeptichick, skeptigirl, and any others who remarked on the removal of hand sanitizer from classrooms--

It took a class of third graders to show me why. My wife, a schoolteacher, was out one day. She came back the next day to an note from the sub complaining of rowdy kids, police knocking on the door, and an empty box of hand sanitizer bottles. Apparently the kids were huffing the sanitizer, which does have an intoxicating effect.

People huff dry erase markers too, gonna ban them from schools? Seriously?

I'm sorry that the substitute teacher was too much of a doof to be able to control the children sitting right in front of her (your wife obviously didn't have a problem), but banning something as necessary as a cleaning product is not the answer here.

 

[Ziggurat]

Do you folks think that alcohol wipes might be the reason that the current swine flu is so mild? Me neither.

Alcohol wipes are only going to affect disease transmission rates, not lethality, and the current swine flu seems to have low lethality right now.

So, what with all of the jillions of time alcohol wipes have been used, is there any in vitro subjective measure of improvement? Fewer hospital infections, fewer sick days off work, lower kids abenteeism rates?

I bet there are hospital studies. Studies in other environments are hard to do with any reliability.

I wonder how much Big Agra is behind the fad? The sure want us to use ethanol in our cars.

It's not big agra in general which is behind ethanol in the US, it's corn farmers in particular. Livestock farmers don't like it, because it raises their feed prices. But I suspect the volumes involved in hand sanitizers probably don't get nearly large enough to make a significant impact on the ethanol from corn market.

 

[Ysidro]

Next time you are in the hospital tell your doctor, nurse and tech not to sanitize their hands before touching you. Enjoy the nosocomial infection you acquire and hope it isn't MRSA.

ETA - Wonder why there is a term for an idea that is only held by me?

Is there a term for an idea only held by you? Because your'e the only one thinking this conversation includes medical professionals sanitizing before surgery.

Perhaps a professional on the board can explain to you the difference. Until then, might I suggest that what you're talking about has very little to do with the OP.

Here's a hint: the general populace in their regular lives and medical professionals in their professional lives are not the same thing.

Especially since this is about washing vs. wide spectrum anti-bacterials in EVERYDAY USE.

 

[dropzone]

My Lutheran pastor uses some antibacterial before Communion. I grew up old-time Catholic, so part of me wants to buy him a Holy Repository of Antibacterial Agents, while another part says, "How do you catch germs in Church?" FTR, we're ELCA, so the supernatural question loses in out-loud discussions.

 

[~enigma~]

Is there a term for an idea only held by you? Because your'e the only one thinking this conversation includes medical professionals sanitizing before surgery.

Perhaps a professional on the board can explain to you the difference. Until then, might I suggest that what you're talking about has very little to do with the OP.

Here's a hint: the general populace in their regular lives and medical professionals in their professional lives are not the same thing.

Especially since this is about washing vs. wide spectrum anti-bacterials in EVERYDAY USE.

Where did I say before surgery? Learn how to read please before you make yourself look even more foolish.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

To skeptichick, skeptigirl, and any others who remarked on the removal of hand sanitizer from classrooms--

It took a class of third graders to show me why. My wife, a schoolteacher, was out one day. She came back the next day to an note from the sub complaining of rowdy kids, police knocking on the door, and an empty box of hand sanitizer bottles. Apparently the kids were huffing the sanitizer, which does have an intoxicating effect.

If your school has that history, it may be the sanitizers are not a good solution for the hand washing issues. When my son was in 3rd grade, the kids were impressed by the DARE program. That didn't wear off until high school.

But in my younger days, drug use began in grade school. So it varies by region and era.


On second thought, huffing the markers comment made sense. I will say kids are not likely to drink the stuff. It tastes too bad.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What are you talking about? This is the link I read:
http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/brm/resources/Disinfectants/AntimicrobialSpectrumDisinfectants0904.pdf

non-enveloped viruses, picornaviruses and parvoviruses are, rather obviously, kinds of viruses. It was already established that viruses could be alcohol resistant. I covered bacterial spores, coccidia, and prions in my previous response. That leaves chlamydiae and fungal spores, both of which alcohol is listed as having limited activity against. So alcohol isn't a fool-proof disinfectant against them, but it does attack them. But I never claimed it was foolproof against anything, even non-spore bacteria.



Your chart lists alcohol as being effective against all three. This is not the highest rating (which is "highly effective"), but to call it "less effective" is misleading.

Chlamydia and coccidia are not viruses. I merely copied the whole list from the chart. And bacterial spores are no small thing as far as pathogen hazards go.


As for misleading, no it is not. It depends on what level of disinfection you need. You cannot use alcohol based disinfectants to sterilize instruments for example.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

My Lutheran pastor uses some antibacterial before Communion. I grew up old-time Catholic, so part of me wants to buy him a Holy Repository of Antibacterial Agents, while another part says, "How do you catch germs in Church?" FTR, we're ELCA, so the supernatural question loses in out-loud discussions.

There was a communion ritual on the news yesterday. The priest was wiping the wine glass off with a towel between patrons. Useless since after a wipe or to you merely spread the organisms around and around.

 

[dropzone]

There was a communion ritual on the news yesterday. The priest was wiping the wine glass off with a towel between patrons. Useless since after a wipe or to you merely spread the organisms around and around.

DINGDINGDINGDIN! What is "you merely spread the organisms around and around," Alex.

 

[Dymanic]

Just out of curiosity, do you have any links to articles looking at Triclosan resistance?

There's lots of them. It might be argued that the basis for the concern is largely theoretical at this point, but still; not without any basis. I think the second-to-last sentence in this one pretty well sums up the current state of the science:

"The use of triclosan as a biocide will remain controversial until the mechanisms of resistance and the relative importance of low-level resistance in the environment are better understood."

http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/46/1/11

The bad taste of the alcohol on your fingers reminds you not to put your hand in your mouth.

You may be on to something here.

 

[Capsid]

The same dynamic is not applicable to virii

Just like to request that the correct plural of virus is viruses. Thanks.

 

[Ysidro]

Where did I say before surgery? Learn how to read please before you make yourself look even more foolish.

OK, now I know you're just trying to fight. Welcome to ignore.