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Germans must work as prostitutes?

Yes that's the original article and it's talking about a hypothetical scenario that might happen because of a new legislation and seems to have a strong agenda against it.

That seems to be the case, indeed. All the article is saying is: "there are now two laws on the books (unemployment and legalized prostitution) which, in this hypothetical scenario, would lead to an absurd result".

This is hardly surprising or odd. Laws are made by human beings; the lawbooks are not some logically consistent complete body covering all possible scenarios, but a collection of more or less ad hoc decisions. That there are two laws who are in conflict in some situations is almost guaranteed for any country whose laws are not completely elemenrtary.

Such contradictions are resolved in various ways, but it's obvious that however resolved in this case, it is inconcievable that women will be in fact forced to work as prostitutes. Most likely, the law will simply be amended to allow women to refuse working in brothels without any penalty.

By the way, such contradictions are at least as old as Plato: for instance, if it is good to help our friends and it is also good to keep our promises, what if our friend comes and demands the knife he loaned us when he is not in his right mind? Either way you'd have to break the (moral) law.

This is not the place for a deep discussion of that particular socratic dialogue (in the REPUBLIC), but we can all be glad a reporter wasn't around to record it, or no doubt we would be treated to a headline saying NEW GREEK MORALITY FORCES MEN NOT TO KEEP THEIR PROMISES, or NEW GREEK MORALITY FORCES MEN TO GIVE KNIVES TO INSANE PEOPLE, depending on which horn of the dilemma poor Cephalus, Socrates' antagonist in this case, had chosen.
 
How hard would it be to convince a unemployment benefits clerk that you were not qualified for a job in a brothel?

How hard would it be to fail a job interview at a brothel?
 
AWPrime said:
I think, I found the original german article:

http://www.taz.de/pt/2004/12/18/a0077.nf/text
Fine, thanks!

What it is about (as some have already said), is that because of legislation making prostitution a legal trade, hypothetically, an unemployed person (most likely a woman ;)) could be referred to work as a prostitute.

However, since other laws say that you cannot be forced to have sex against your will, this is really moot, and I suspect the article is somewhat tongue-in-cheek (this is difficult to judge since German humor is ...... well, different).

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Fine, thanks!

What it is about (as some have already said), is that because of legislation making prostitution a legal trade, hypothetically, an unemployed person (most likely a woman ;)) could be referred to work as a prostitute.

However, since other laws say that you cannot be forced to have sex against your will, this is really moot, and I suspect the article is somewhat tongue-in-cheek (this is difficult to judge since German humor is ...... well, different).

Hans

Well, the article is from the TAZ by all means. the paper is so far to the left, it would (figuratively) thrown on the US publication map land far west of Hawaii.

They definitely have some beef with the current cuts made to the social net and the article fits to that agenda.

Zee
 
hgc said:
Sometimes you just have to resort to common sense. Yes, skepticism allows for it (at least my brand of skepticism does). Az ZG says, it's easy to see how the consequence of combination of 2 unrelated laws could lead to this conumdrum. Now who really believes that anyone in Germany will ever lose their unemployment benefits because they refuse to work as a prostitute, despite what appears on The Telegragh website? Raise your hands.

(hand goes up)

You appear to be making a judgement about prostitution that suggests that there is something wrong with it and people would understand someone not taking such a job. If that is true, why was it legalized?
 
Ed said:
(hand goes up)

You appear to be making a judgement about prostitution that suggests that there is something wrong with it and people would understand someone not taking such a job. If that is true, why was it legalized?

Heading in a false dilemma. Not everything that is legalized has to be acceptable to everybody.

And yes, people will understand. That's the way it works over here. As Hans pointed out, the hypothetical scenario would be in clear breach with other laws. So, it''s not gonna happen. You can take our word for it or not, its a non issue..

Zee
 
SwissSkeptic said:
Yes that's the original article and it's talking about a hypothetical scenario that might happen because of a new legislation and seems to have a strong agenda against it. As far as I understand it no particular person had to make a choice to work as a prostitute or else to lose benefits. But maybe some of the German posters here can clear things up...

Hi @ all :)

when i first read the threadopener i thought * oh me good god* anti german propaganda at the jref* *gg*

As i am german i have just read the article and it is in fact true, that germans out of work COULD be made to take any job, no matter what. That has to do with the new legislation Harz IIII.
It has been known here that germans on benefit ( 68% of there income) are just not willing to take ANY job on that does not pay more than there benefit. This benefit will be paid in full for 1 year only. After that the new Harz IIII legislation will make them take either a job of there own choice or they will HAVE to take a 1 Euro Job to get there benefit paid. Meaning to get benefit they are made to work for an extra Euro per hour ( max. approx. 150€ a month) and get there benefit paid on top.

I find this a good idea....especially as we have a never ending supply of people who parade there butt on talkshows and brag that they are not working because the benefit is to GOOD *shock horror*

But in the end i hope this new rule, on taking jobs in a brothel, also applies to men, hihi :D

Any spelling mistakes are my property but you may keep them as a gift *g*
 
Welcome from lurk-land DLV ;)!

Good to see you as we are rather short on Germans here.

You can keep your spelling errors, however, as I'm quite capable of making my own (and so are most others here, heheh).

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Welcome from lurk-land DLV ;)!

Good to see you as we are rather short on Germans here.

You can keep your spelling errors, however, as I'm quite capable of making my own (and so are most others here, heheh).

Hans

Thank you, kind Sir !:)

I`am very happy to be here with you all and i am looking forward to some good discussions.
 
DivaLasVegas said:
Hi @ all :)

when i first read the threadopener i thought * oh me good god* anti german propaganda at the jref* *gg*

As i am german i have just read the article and it is in fact true, that germans out of work COULD be made to take any job, no matter what. That has to do with the new legislation Harz IIII.
It has been known here that germans on benefit ( 68% of there income) are just not willing to take ANY job on that does not pay more than there benefit. This benefit will be paid in full for 1 year only. After that the new Harz IIII legislation will make them take either a job of there own choice or they will HAVE to take a 1 Euro Job to get there benefit paid. Meaning to get benefit they are made to work for an extra Euro per hour ( max. approx. 150€ a month) and get there benefit paid on top.

I find this a good idea....especially as we have a never ending supply of people who parade there butt on talkshows and brag that they are not working because the benefit is to GOOD *shock horror*

But in the end i hope this new rule, on taking jobs in a brothel, also applies to men, hihi :D

Any spelling mistakes are my property but you may keep them as a gift *g*

Wow, a german skepchick. That'll be the first here. Willkommen und viel Spaß.
Schnee in Bielefeld?

Zee
 
ZeeGerman said:
Wow, a german skepchick. That'll be the first here. Willkommen und viel Spaß.
Schnee in Bielefeld?

Zee

Thanks for the welcome !

Leider nein :-( Regen Regen Regen *ächtz*
 
ZeeGerman said:
Well, the article is from the TAZ by all means. the paper is so far to the left, it would (figuratively) thrown on the US publication map land far west of Hawaii.

They definitely have some beef with the current cuts made to the social net and the article fits to that agenda.

Zee
So, we have a far left wing paper examining a hypothetical, and a mainstream right paper (the Telegraph) presenting it as truth. Hmmmm.....
 
username said:
Yes, but:

As to A, the reasons brothels don't register job openings with the unemployment office could change. The article says at least one brothel has registered positions with the UE office.

Yes, they could change. Which is why it was necessary to mention the B, part. As to the one brothel registering position that's according to the unsupported article we're just now picking apart.

As to B, it would seem that the UE office worker could get fired after the UE office was sued by the brothel for allowing the unemployed person to opt out of the employment when they cannot opt out for other employment opportunities.
I think you fail to realize that in most of Europe courts judge on the intent of a law, rather than the letter. Besides even the letter of the law isn't to ensure employers get a chance at every UE person, but to ensure that someone who simply refuses all job offers doesn't get benefits.

I can totally accept that this is a hypothetical scenario, but hypothetical doesn't mean it cannot happen. Indeed the Telegraph article states it has happened. Whether or not the woman will lose her benefits is not yet certain.

I am not familiar with the Telegraph, one person said it is a right wing propaganda paper. That could be the case, I don't know. Regardless, the bias of the source doesn't seem relevant as long as the facts presented are accurate.
Hypothetical doesn't mean it cannot happen, no, but considering A and B (again) it's not bloody likely. I never mentioned the bias of the source, what I looked at was the facts. And they don't pan out. You really think a case like this wouldn't make news in Germany, and in the rest of Europe? A search on the woman's name turned up just one hit, the Telegraph article. Whether the Telegraph is biased or not these facts seem to be from the reporters imagination.
 
@ Bjornart

You are right of course and i can confirm as of yet, this has not happened here.

There would be such an outcry that you could hear the screams at the JREF :D
 
Re: Re: Germans must work as prostitutes?

Darat said:
The logic seems pretty sound to me.

The state makes a benefit available to unemployed people, one of the conditions is that you must be willing to take any job you are suitable for...

Do I think this is right or wrong?

Well I don’t think the “sex industry” is “wrong” so no problems on those grounds.

I think it would be wrong if the state was in effect saying “you must have sex” however I think there is a way out of that particular dilemma. Consider that is the fact that we legislate that a “sexual act” must be consensual else it is a criminal offence. Therefore no one can be forced by the state to undertake a sexual act, whether the sex industry is legal or not.

Well, should an unemployed heterosexual male be forced to become a gay gigilo should a job opportunity open up? After all, in our sexuality-neutral society, well, it's not so bad. The John mostly just wants to suck your c**k for awhile.

Then again, I thought in Europe you didn't have to take any job, just one that's similar to your established career. There's nothing like prostitution except prostitution, although a Vegas showgirl might have a tough time arguing that to a judge.

On the gripping hand, everything is like prostitution in that you're selling efforts by your body to your customer.
 
I think this shows the problem with unemployment insurance. Besides the fact that the people who need it most (people who haven't had a job recently) don't get it, being unemployed isn't an objective circumstance, like a house fire or a totaled car. I've wondered about similar situations in the US. What about stripping? Telemarketing? Deep sea diving? Scabbing? Graveyard shifts? Abortionist? Homeopathic salesman?

BTW, there a major case in the US where a woman was denied unemployment after turning down a job that required her to work on the Sabbath. I don't remeber what the resulkt of her appeal was.

Tricky said:
If it's at all like the US, then you don't have to keep the job, just show that you tried.
I don't think that's true. If you're fired for cause, the company can notify unemployment not to pay your benefits.

Beerina said:
Well, should an unemployed heterosexual male be forced to become a gay gigilo should a job opportunity open up? After all, in our sexuality-neutral society, well, it's not so bad. The John mostly just wants to suck your c**k for awhile.
I don't have much experience in this area, but I would think that most Johns would want to be on the other end.
 

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