About time. Thank you. How about going back to the link I posted so you can see I was referring to GA and not the country in Eurasia.
Ranb
Last edited:
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
Georgia has new gun law.
- Thread starter thaiboxerken
- Start date
Ranb
Almost all common hunting ammo is supersonic to improve power and flatten the trajectory. Speeds are commonly listed on the box. I’m not aware of any labeling regulations.
Subsonic ammunition can be much less noisy than supersonic ammo. If you are familiar with how a jet fighter or the space shuttle makes a sonic boom when flying faster than the speed of sound, then you may appreciate how much less noisy a subsonic bullet can be compared to one that is creating a shock wave along its entire path while moving faster than about 1150 feet per second.
A subsonic bullet does not create the shock wave associated with anything moving faster than the speed of sound. I can hear the larger bullets, especially the flat noise or hollow points making a slight buzzing sound while moving through the air if I am using a silencer on the rifle. I don't hear any flight noise from the large round nose bullets or small bullets (22-30 caliber) at all. But the shock wave from a bullet moving supersonic makes a loud cracking noise from the time it exits the muzzle until it smacks loudly into the target. The muzzle blast of an unsuppressed rifle or pistol tends to partially cover up the high pitched noise from the sonic boom, but it is very obvious when shooting indoors, outdoors under weather protection or shooting past any object like berms, trees and buildings. The sonic boom echoes.
Shoot a high powered rifle like a 30-06 with and without a silencer using standard ammunition (165 grain bullet moving 2600 fps) with the person listening to the report 100 yards downrange or farther. In my experience the sonic boom is the dominate noise down range. I listened from behind a safety berm as the bullet passed by.
Use a subsonic bullet and about all you hear is the muzzle blast. Since the blast is still 110 to 140 decibels suppressed or 160 – 200 decibels unsuppressed, it is easy to hear. Some of the more lightly charged cartridges make less noise. Anything 120 decibels and under is hard to hear past 100 yards; a suppressed rifle chambered subsonic 22 long rifle is nearly noiseless a short distance away.
There are some concerns that poachers would use silencers to help hide their crimes. Using subsonic ammo along with a silencer makes detecting them more difficult.
There is also the velocity/distance problem. While subsonic ammo looses very little velocity downrange compared to higher speed ammo, it has a rainbow like trajectory past 200 yards requiring that the hunter know the precise distance to the target to ensure a hit (humane kill). Since power is proportional to the speed squared, there is also a power problem.
Some jurisdictions require a minimum caliber or muzzle velocity to ensure more likely human kills on game animals. 1000 ft-lbs at the muzzle is common. I have a rifle that shoots bullets weighing 650-950 grains. This gives me about 1600-2300 ft-lbs at the muzzle with about 90% of that remaining at 200 yards. I still have the range estimating problem though.
Ranb
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2001
- Messages
- 35,128
Because I clicked a couple of USA links that only took me to general history of the USA. I'm not going to take time to research your claim. I posted a relevant link where the information is on the linked page.
No need to research on my link. I just don't want you accusing me of making the same kind of unfounded claims that you are making in this thread.
Going to prop up any of your other claims in this thread with a shred of evidence?
Ranb
plague311
Great minds think...
I love this argument, it's so excessively childish. As if anyone is implying that if you change the laws around guns that it will do absolutely no good at all, because criminals don't listen to laws. Such a completely strange argument to toss out there. Yes, there are laws against speeding, and people still speed. We get it.
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2003
- Messages
- 59,856
What is the purpose of the "no guns" sign? Is it fulfilling its purpose?
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2003
- Messages
- 59,856
Very apparent at 7:30 on this video, the camera is more than 200 yards from the rifle and close to the target.
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2001
- Messages
- 35,128
Your link doesn't have the relevant info to support your claim. You say it's in a link within your linked page. Why not just post the link to the relevant page in the first place?
The link I posted shows that the gun violence rate is higher in Georgia by about 1/100,000 than in Illinois.
Here is more evidence that shows that the more easily accessible guns are, the more homicides are committed. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Last edited:
Because it is not a link on the page. Clicking on "show" or "hide" does not change the address shown in the top of the browzer. You could go back to the link I posted and click on United States at the top menu then click on show to show the data, or you could take my word for it that total homicides (not just those from guns) in GA only exceed IL by about 2%.
Ranb
elbe
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2008
- Messages
- 4,983
Much like speed limit signs they provide instructions to those who follow the law. Did you not know that?
Last edited:
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
It's confirmation bias. This is one instance where no, it didn't fulfill its purpose. We have no data on how many times it may have done so. We just can't assume that it didn't. Further, I'm surprised that conservatives are telling businesses how they must conduct themselves concerning what they allow in their stores. Seems contrary to their usual rhetoric.
Speaking of data and assumptions, WildCat, have you been able locate that direct data you think should have been used in that study?
The Mutha
thoroughly confused, but valiantly trying...
The signs are also there to protect the company that occupies the building, and the company that owns the building and land from being sued out the ass when someone walks in and sprays and slays. Not that it keeps that from happening much, but at least they can say "but we had signs up!"
Last edited:
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2003
- Messages
- 59,856
What is the purpose of the speed limit law? What is the purpose of the signs?
Who's telling anyone anything? It's the anti-gunners who are in favor of laws banning firearms from private businesses, like those in this very thread getting the vapors because Georgia isn't forcing bars to ban firearms.
I didn't conduct the study, why should I be collecting the data? Don't you think that if they were going to study whether the new gun law made it easier for criminals to acquire firearms at private gun sales they'd study whether a higher percentage of guns used in crimes came from private gun sales?
Why do you think they didn't do that Upchurch? Why do you think they cherry picked data to make a correlation-causation conclusion? How does the study explain increases in gun homicide rates in states that didn't change their gun laws?
I predict that once again you'll refuse to answer any of these questions.
Last edited:
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
I didn't ask you to collect the data. I asked if the data you thought they should use actually existed in any usable form.
This is what I'm getting at: Where would they get that information?
At a guess, I suspect those kinds of records are not reliably kept on either a state or federal level. If some of the data is kept here or there, it may not have been kept during the time period the researchers were interested in.
As I said before, I don't know that the data you suggest they should have used even exists. Can you support your claim that it does?
Last edited:
elbe
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2008
- Messages
- 4,983
Mostly to keep people safe since driving too fast can endanger yourself and others. I could recommend some pamphlets from the secretary of state's office if you'd like.
Signs are a way of communicating a message to those who may need to know something, usually through words of imagery. I could recommend a grade school education if you'd like.
Last edited:
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
My mistake. I misunderstood the ramifications of the law based on your FedEx example above.
However, this law would have not made any difference in that situation, presuming that FedEx, or even just that office, opted to keep it a gun free establishment. So, unless you are suggesting that all establishments should not be, or should not allowed to be, gun free establishments, I don't know what you are trying to argue with the FedEx example.
Last edited:
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2003
- Messages
- 59,856
Any private business can ban firearms from their premises, which will ensure that only criminals will carry firearms into those establishments.
The criminals, after all, never hurt anyone it's those who have had background checks, been fingerprinted, etc that you have to worry about. Those are the people shooting up St. Louis, right?
DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
and no one is a criminal until they are and when they are, they are loaded to the teeth with weapons. Plus they can get them from friends or aren't criminals or steal them from people who aren't criminals, cause there are...
Lots of Guns
Then there all those that aren't criminals until they kill their friends and or family in a fit of rage cause there are...
Lots of Guns
Dead people are okay though cause you can target shoot
Then there is my favorite "skeptic" fallacy, the perfect solution fallacy. Clung to like a gun nut clings to their gun. If you can't fix the entire problem, let them die.
Lots of Guns
Then there all those that aren't criminals until they kill their friends and or family in a fit of rage cause there are...
Lots of Guns
Dead people are okay though cause you can target shoot
Then there is my favorite "skeptic" fallacy, the perfect solution fallacy. Clung to like a gun nut clings to their gun. If you can't fix the entire problem, let them die.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
You didn't answer the question. Are you suggesting that businesses should not, or should not be allowed to, ban firearms from their places of business?
Also, have found out if that data exists yet? Or are you planning on just assuming it does so you can have faith that the study is biased and part of a Blomberg CT?
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
There is an expression:
"'Tis a poor craftsman that blames his tools."
Maybe a corollary could be:
"'Tis a poor logician who blames an implement."