Genocide, what genocide? Obama changed his tune last week.

[boyntonstu]

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=170622

Genocide, what genocide? Obama changed his tune last week.

""Of late it’s been a tough time for those working to prevent genocide. Darfur has been off the world’s radar screen for months. Then there’s the poor Armenians. It wasn’t enough that 1.5 million were murdered in a genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman Turks during World War I. Turns out that for the sake of appeasing Turkey and its increasingly militant Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, US President Barack Obama is prepared to rewrite history and deny there was ever a genocide in the first place.

Breaking his campaign promise of January 2008, when he said that he “stood with the Armenian American community in calling for Turkey’s acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide” and that “as president I will recognize the Armenian genocide [which is] not an allegation, a personal opinion or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence,” Obama changed his tune last week.

After the House Foreign Affairs Committee approved a resolution that declares the 1915 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide, the Obama administration urged the committee not to pass the measure. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has vowed to stop the resolution where it stands for fear of angering Turkey.""
……….


How can we improve the world if we are afraid to acknowledge, record, and teach factual history?

 

[Eddie Dane]

Interesting.

Turkey is pretty powerful and seems to be getting away with stuff like this.
Israel -to my knowledge- also doesn't recognize the Armenian genocide. they need Turkey as an ally.

Realpolitik is a bitch.

 

[Thunder]

I don't want the USA recognizing the genocide in Armenia until we first recognize the Nakba in Palestine.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

I don't want the USA recognizing the genocide in Armenia until we first recognize the Nakba in Palestine.

Because some victims are more important than others?

What kind of tie exists between these events in your mind?

 

[boyntonstu]

Interesting.

Turkey is pretty powerful and seems to be getting away with stuff like this.
Israel -to my knowledge- also doesn't recognize the Armenian genocide. they need Turkey as an ally.

Realpolitik is a bitch.

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/genocide.html

"Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember.""

 

[Skeptic]

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 12 removed.

 

[Eddie Dane]

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/genocide.html

"Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember.""

I stand corrected.
I must have read about a specific Israelis politician sucking up to the Turks.

Its a relief to read this though.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Hey, sometimes situations change, and promises have to be broken.
Of course in Obama's case we have a campaign built entirely on empty promises...

 

[FireGarden]

I stand corrected.
I must have read about a specific Israelis politician sucking up to the Turks.

Shimon Peres?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/897273.html

Israel has not changed its position on the killing of 1.5 million Armenians during World War I, President Shimon Peres assured the Turkish prime minister last week.

On Tuesday, the Anti-Defamation League announced that it considered the massacres to be genocide. It apologized for putting the Turkish people in a "difficult position" in a letter this weekend, the Turkish media reported.

In his conversation with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Peres reiterated the Israeli position that Turkey and Armenia should resolve the dispute on the nature of the killings through dialogue. Jerusalem is careful not to refer to the killings as a genocide.

As for Obama... If you can't break promises, then you can't be a politician.

 

[Doctor Evil]

May I ask why a thread on US-Turkey relations involve Israel from the first reply?

 

[Skeptic]

Because Israel is a another country apart from the USA (a) most people here are interested in, with a (b) less-than-stellar record about recognizing the Armenian genocide.

 

[FireGarden]

Many countries have a less than stellar record in that regard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_the_Armenian_Genocide

The UK has not called the massacres genocide, though the European parliament has stated it is. So I guess I'm European in this regard.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Because Israel is a another country apart from the USA (a) most people here are interested in, with a (b) less-than-stellar record about recognizing the Armenian genocide.

And because Israel's existence was sparked by the Holocaust and the Holocaust is to genocide what the Titanic is to shipping accidents.

 

[Moss]

I don't want the USA recognizing the genocide in Armenia until we first recognize the Nakba in Palestine.

Parky, you can't be serious? What has the Armenian genocide to do with the flight and expulsion of the Palestines? Why should the Armenians have to wait for calling a crime against them a crime?

 

[boyntonstu]

Because Israel is a another country apart from the USA (a) most people here are interested in, with a (b) less-than-stellar record about recognizing the Armenian genocide.

(b) read up a few posts.

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armeni.../genocide.html

"Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember.""

 

[tyr_13]

Politics is political. Who would have thought?

 

[ddt]

(b) read up a few posts.

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armeni.../genocide.html

"Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember.""

Kudos to Beilin for saying that, but it is not an official government position, enshrined in a parliamentary resolution - witness also Peres' later statements. That's not meant to disparage Israel - see the wiki-page FireGarden linked to, it lists only 20 countries that officially recognize that Armenian genocide as genocide. A lot of European countries are also missing from that list.

I agree with Dr Evil's sentiment: WTF does Israel feature in this thread? And I'm totally at a loss why parky sees any relation with the Naqba. There's none.

As to Obama: yeah, it's politics. Still it's shameful. And I'd like to ask: does the US really need Turkey so much and would the ramifications of a US acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide be so adverse? Is there any evidence the 20 states that did acknowledge it suffered?

Lastly, I think the Turkish denial in this is disgusting - it's really hardly different from Holocaust denial. The only thing the Turkish government has over the kind of Holocaust deniers we see here is that they at least admit Armenians died. I think Turkey should not be a member of the EU as long as they continue this.

 

[Skeptic]

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 12 removed.

 

[portlandatheist]

I don't want the USA recognizing the genocide in Armenia until we first recognize the Nakba in Palestine.

You should really reread what you posted here and clarify if actually think this is reasonable.

 

[McHrozni]

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=170622

Genocide, what genocide? Obama changed his tune last week.

It's hardly the first thing he ever changed the tune on, and I certainly don't expect it to be the last. What surprises me, however, is that many of his promises turn out to be empty, even though they really shouldn't impact his ability to govern. Negotiating healthcare on C-Span and posting non-emergency bills on the White House web site for 5 days before signing and allowing for comments are two other such promises that he also broke.
I can understand why he couldn't tackle the national debt, for instance, I might be able to understand why he doesn't stand up to Turkey, but not posting bills for five days on his web page is inexcusable.

McHrozni