General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[bikerdruid]

Do you condemn Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist organizations?

i do not support them and i do not approve of their methods, but i will not call them terrorist organizations.
that term has been used so much it has no meaning anymore.

 

[Virus]

So Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations, according to you.

"vote communist" lol

 

[Skeptic]

Hey, I wouldn't mind being a communist atheist druid homosexual under Hamas or Hizbullah rule -- I'm sure they treat people like that very well...

But yeah, once more, we have the communists' automatic support as a "liberation movement" of any murderous thug -- including murderous thugs who self-describe their own goal as mass murder, as Hamas and Hizbullah do -- so long as they want to murder the right people, like Jews (naturally), westerners, "capitalists", etc.

 

[bikerdruid]

Hey, I wouldn't mind being a communist atheist druid homosexual under Hamas or Hizbullah rule -- I'm sure they treat people like that very well...

But yeah, once more, we have the communists' automatic support as a "liberation movement" of any murderous thug -- including murderous thugs who self-describe their own goal as mass murder, as Hamas and Hizbullah do -- so long as they want to murder the right people, like Jews (naturally), westerners, "capitalists", etc.

i am not an atheist.
i do not support murder.
i do not support hamas or hezbullah.
and as much as you would like me to fit your warped interpretation, i do not hate jews.

 

[Virus]

But you refused to condemn them. You just said you don't agree with their methods. Does that mean you agree with non-violent methods of weakening and destroying the Jewish State? Wait a sec, you don't believe any state has a right to exist. (although partial to certian communist despots). Does that mean you advocate a no-state solution?

 

[bikerdruid]

But you refused to condemn them. You just said you don't agree with their methods. Does that mean you agree with non-violent methods of weakening and destroying the Jewish State? Wait a sec, you don't believe any state has a right to exist. (although partial to certian communist despots). Does that mean you advocate a no-state solution.

no, i said that "i would not call them a terrorist organization," since that term has become meaningless.
you really should read my posts before you comment on them.
that's twice tonight that you have failed to read, but just started shooting off.

 

[Mycroft]

no, i said that "i would not call them a terrorist organization," since that term has become meaningless.
you really should read my posts before you comment on them.
that's twice tonight that you have failed to read, but just started shooting off.

I think people may have an issue with it because the "problem" of defining terrorism seems only to be a problem with people near your end of the political spectrum. Other people don't seem nearly so confused over the issue. When they see the laser guided rocket launched at the school bus with children on board, "terrorism" is the least of the pejoratives that come to mind.

 

[Skeptic]

By the way, Hamas had upped the ante. No longer it is using only living hostages as "human shields", but now they are using the dead.

OK, everybody, hands up: if the IDF had fired a missile at these schmucks, how many would be whining about the IDF "destroying cultural monuments and cemetaries"?

 

[quixotecoyote]

By the way, Hamas had upped the ante. No longer it is using only living hostages as "human shields", but now they are using the dead.

OK, everybody, hands up: if the IDF had fired a missile at these schmucks, how many would be whining about the IDF "destroying cultural monuments and cemetaries"?

Your priorities seem a little off. Using a cemetery doesn't seem worse than live people to me.

 

[Skeptic]

True, but I was thinking about the screaming and hollering about Israel "desecrating Muslim cemetaries" (not true, but never mind) from a few months back. I expect them to stay rather silent here, since, of course, building next to a cemetary on land never used for burial is SO MUCH WORSE than firing rockets at villages from cemetaries.

 

[Virus]

They would claim that Israel deliberately targets the spiritual places of Muslims for "collective punishment" or some crap.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I'd think they would scream "apartheid!" or "colective punishment!" some other popular catchphrase that hollows out the original meaning.

 

[Virus]

Colonial Pirate Collective Punishment Apartheid.

 

[IDB87]

no, i said that "i would not call them a terrorist organization," since that term has become meaningless.
you really should read my posts before you comment on them.
that's twice tonight that you have failed to read, but just started shooting off.

When has that term become meaningless?

Surely you will be able to provide an example of what a terrorist is/was?

But really...

 

[Skeptic]

Well, Thunder, what about that apology I keep demanding from you? You know you owe it to us. If you can stop defending Hamas for a moment...

...anyway, and now for something completely different: a radio conversation I've just heard which truly can only happen in the crazy middle east. The interviewer is a famous talk-show host. the interviewee, a zoo keeper.

Host: So, where are you sending this hippoppotamus?
Guest: We are sending it to Qualqilia (a town in the PA in the WB).
Host: Why?
Guest: Well, we've got good connections with them and are helping them improve. They need our help to join EAZA.
Host: EAZA?! (Pronounced in Hebrew "Aza" -- the Hebrew name for Gaza)
Guest: Yes -- the European zoo association.
Host (In a stage whisper): Well, they sure have lots of vilde chayes ["wild animals", in Yiddish] there...
Guest [apparently not a Yiddish speaker]: Sorry?
Host: Never mind, never mind...

 

[bikerdruid]

When has that term become meaningless?

Surely you will be able to provide an example of what a terrorist is/was?

But really...

the term terrorist has come to mean everyone from greenpeace and earthfirst! to al quaeda.
anyone fighting for freedom that the u.s. disagrees with, has become a terrorist.
your founding fathers would have been called terrorists by your current and recent governments.

 

[bikerdruid]

I think people may have an issue with it because the "problem" of defining terrorism seems only to be a problem with people near your end of the political spectrum. Other people don't seem nearly so confused over the issue. When they see the laser guided rocket launched at the school bus with children on board, "terrorism" is the least of the pejoratives that come to mind.

the israelis blew up hospitals and schools during cast lead.
many hundreds of children died.
do they qualify as terrorists too?

 

[IDB87]

the term terrorist has come to mean everyone from greenpeace and earthfirst! to al quaeda.

It has always been used to reflect the tactics used, not their political stance. I'm sure given the right PR team, Al Qaeda could be an effective non-violent political party. They just so happen to like violence instead of debate which is what makes them terrorists.

anyone fighting for freedom that the u.s. disagrees with, has become a terrorist.

What do you mean 'fighting for freedom' and which groups are you attributing that to? For instance, groups like Hamas and AQ would like to impose their religious beliefs on you through use of violence - aren't you against religion?

your founding fathers would have been called terrorists by your current and recent governments.

Insurgents would be more accurate.

 

[IDB87]

the israelis blew up hospitals and schools during cast lead.
many hundreds of children died.
do they qualify as terrorists too?

Hamas was using these buildings as fighting positions and firebases.

It's almost as if Hamas was putting the occupants at risk on purpose..

 

[WildCat]

the israelis blew up hospitals and schools during cast lead.

I'm not aware of any hospitals being blown up, despite the fact that Hamas used a hospital as their base of operations, which is a war crime btw.

Hamas also used schools to launch attacks, again as an attempt to use them as a shield. Why do you blame Israel for this?

many hundreds of children died.
do they qualify as terrorists too?

No children were targeted by the IDF, they are targeted by Hamas. Intent has everything to do with the term. And many of those "children" were Hamas fighters. It would be very interesting to see the age/gender breakdown of the "civilian" casualties of Cast Lead, I'd guess that well over 80% of them are males 15 and older. Child soldiers aren't protected from attack.

Here's a school booby trapped by Hamas: