General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

I thought that before someone makes serious accusations -- such as a new Israeli law "criminalizes the Nakba", "Arab towns are treated differently due to racism", "they might lose all funding" -- it is the responsibilty of the person making the accusation to make sure they are basing them on accurate information.

err..it was based on the information YOU posted in YOUR post.

are you telling us here and now, that information in your posts cannot be taken at face value, and must be further verified?

are you telling us that information in your posts is unreliable?

wow. Good for you, Skeptic. Good for you.

 

[Skeptic]

are you telling us here and now, that information in your posts cannot be taken at face value, and must be further verified?

No, I am saying wikipedia articles cannot be so taken unless further verified. But, of course, everybody knows that. The point of quoting wikipedia wasn't that it is 100% reliable, but that even a wikipedia article found after 30 seconds on google is good enough to prove your claim the law "criminalizes" the Nakba is false.

That's all I used the wikipedia article for. It was you who then treated the wikipedia article, with your usual bad faith, in a way which no wikipedia (or, for that matter, any encyclopedia's) article is supposed to be used: not as a general information guide about X, but as a way to look for something, anything, to show how evil, eeeeeeeeeeevil, X is.

Well, sometimes it might work, but in this case, you were snared by your own trap, exposing for all to see just how much ignorance and bad faith goes into your claims about Israel.

So, apologize, please, for making those three false claims.

 

[Thunder]

No, I am saying wikipedia articles cannot be so taken unless further verified.

you posted the article.

in fact, not only did you post the article, but you didn't even post a link to the source of the article. you provided no information stating that the article was from Wikipedia, the Jerusalem Post, the BBC, or otherwise.

its now very clear that information you post can no longer be trusted, based on YOUR own admission.

It was you who then treated the wikipedia article, with your usual bad faith, in a way which no wikipedia (or, for that matter, any encyclopedia's) article is supposed to be used: not as a general information guide about X, but as a way to look for something, anything, to show how evil, eeeeeeeeeeevil, X is.

forgive me for assuming that information that you post can in ANY WAY be trusted.

I promise, this mistake shall not happen again.

From now on, I shall request independent confirmation for any claim you make or information you post.

 

[DC]

In general, for the same reason that people who come from, say, Morocco and are Moroccans accept that France is the state of the French people, and -- for instance -- might give precedence in citizenship to those who grandparents came from France and not those whose grandparents came from Morocco.

And, once more, this is simply besides the point. The law asks nobody to accept anything. The law simply says that if you do not accept some important point about the state -- denying it's a Jewish state or denying it's a democratic state or calling for armed struggle against it or considering its very founding a disaster -- then you will not get money from the state.

I accept switzerland is the country of swiss people, but new citizens are considered swiss citizens.

its a nationality not a religion/ethnic group. And in Israel it looks like being jewish is more important than being Israeli citizen, i think that is wrong.

It would be -- if it was a criminal offense to do so (perhaps there are other laws who criminalize that, but we're speaking about this law.) Again, the only penalty here -- which is not a criminal penalty -- is that the minister of finance might defund an institution which officially has ceremonies burning the flag.

It is legal (so far as I know) to open a factory called "Israeli Flag Burning Inc.", and do nothing in that factory but prepare fuel-soaked Israeli flags and then burn them. All this law says is that you just won't get government money to do so. Or rather might not if the minister of finance cuts funding.



Yes they are -- as are Arabs. But the Jews will risk getting their funding cut just as much as the Arabs is they so do. At least according to this law. If there is some other law that does in fact criminalize such actions, then, yes, I assure you it applies equally to Jews and Arabs.

ok its only normal that Tax money shoeldn't flow into flag burnings.
But i have some trouble that arab groups get singled out.
(OT:yes wildcat, i know we also single out moslem, but i have often spoken out against it and still consider it wrong)


its just that making a difference between Arab israeli and Jewish Israeli. They are Israeli citizens, laws should be for Israeli citizen. oh well my opinion at least.

 

[Thunder]

its just that making a difference between Arab israeli and Jewish Israeli. They are Israeli citizens, laws should be for Israeli citizen. oh well my opinion at least.

why do you hate Israel and Jews?

 

[Thunder]

Hamas regrets attack on Israeli schoolbus

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-t-mean-to-target-israeli-school-bus-1.354967

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=215841

Hamas said on Saturday its militants did not intend to target Israeli schoolchildren when they fired a rocket at a bus two days ago, critically wounding a teenager and moderately wounding the bus driver, in an attack that sparked the latest round of border fighting.

"It was not known that the bus targeted on the outskirts of Gaza carried schoolchildren," spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told Reuters, adding that the road where the bus was travelling was often used by Israeli military vehicles.

I'm sorry....what????

The evil Islamo-fascists of Hamas, the ones who seek the genocide of the Jewish people and the mass-murder of all Israeli-Jews, is actually expressing regret at one of their terrorist operations???

How is this possible? Why would a terrorist group who honors and seeks to replecate the Nazis, actually express regret at the injuring of Jewish children?

what's....going...on???

 

[mortimer]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-t-mean-to-target-israeli-school-bus-1.354967

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=215841

Hamas said on Saturday its militants did not intend to target Israeli schoolchildren when they fired a rocket at a bus two days ago, critically wounding a teenager and moderately wounding the bus driver, in an attack that sparked the latest round of border fighting.

"It was not known that the bus targeted on the outskirts of Gaza carried schoolchildren," spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told Reuters, adding that the road where the bus was travelling was often used by Israeli military vehicles.

I'm sorry....what????

The evil Islamo-fascists of Hamas, the ones who seek the genocide of the Jewish people and the mass-murder of all Israeli-Jews, is actually expressing regret at one of their terrorist operations???

How is this possible? Why would a terrorist group who honors and seeks to replecate the Nazis, actually express regret at the injuring of Jewish children?

what's....going...on???

"We targeted a schoolbus. How the heck would we know it carried schoolchildren?"

You've swallowed the Hamas KoolAid, Thunder.

 

[Thunder]

"We targeted a schoolbus.."

no, they did not say they targeted a "schoolbus". that's your unfortunate edit of their statement.

they say they targeted a bus, one on a road frequented by IDF personnel.

 

[mortimer]

no, they did not say they targeted a "schoolbus". that's your unfortunate edit of their statement.

they say they targeted a bus, one on a road frequented by IDF personnel.

Keep drinking.

Of course they didn't say it was a schoolbus. But it was. A yellow schoolbus.

 

[Thunder]

Keep drinking.

are you suggesting that only someone who is intoxicated by alchohol would disagree with you? wow.

Of course they didn't say it was a schoolbus. But it was. A yellow schoolbus.

I am not an Israeli and have neved been to Israel...so I have no idea what a standard Israeli schoolbus looks like.

But to me, this bus looks like a typical long-distance bus. Not a schoolbus.

 

[mortimer]

are you suggesting that only someone who is intoxicated by alchohol would disagree with you? wow.

No. See my previous comment about drinking the Hamas Koolaid.

I am not an Israeli and have neved been to Israel...so I have no idea what a standard Israeli schoolbus looks like.

But to me, this bus looks like a typical long-distance bus. Not a schoolbus.

Are you suggesting that Israel purposely loaded up a non-schoolbus with schoolkids, expecting that Hamas would attack it?

 

[Thunder]

Are you suggesting that Israel purposely loaded up a non-schoolbus with schoolkids, expecting that Hamas would attack it?

Are you?

 

[mortimer]

are you?

No. But continue to defend Hamas and their terrorist acts.

 

[Thunder]

No. But continue to defend Hamas and their terrorist acts.

I have never defended Hamas, and especially not their acts of terrorism against civilian non-combatants.

On the contrary, I have called for the leaders of Hamas to be arrested and put on trial for war crimes at the Hague.

Why haven't you? Why do you believe Hamas is above the law?

 

[mortimer]

The evil Islamo-fascists of Hamas, the ones who seek the genocide of the Jewish people and the mass-murder of all Israeli-Jews, is actually expressing regret at one of their terrorist operations???

How is this possible? Why would a terrorist group who honors and seeks to replecate the Nazis, actually express regret at the injuring of Jewish children?

what's....going...on???

I have never defended Hamas, and especially not their acts of terrorism against civilian non-combatants.

On the contrary, I have called for the leaders of Hamas to be arrested and put on trial for war crimes at the Hague.

Riiiiiiight.

Why haven't you? Why do you believe Hamas is above the law?

Evidence that this is my position on Hamas? Good luck.

 

[Thunder]

Riiiiiiight.

evidence that I defend Hamas and their terrorist attacks? Good luck.

Evidence that this is my position on Hamas? Good luck.

you have yet to deny it.

 

[angrysoba]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-t-mean-to-target-israeli-school-bus-1.354967

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=215841

Hamas said on Saturday its militants did not intend to target Israeli schoolchildren when they fired a rocket at a bus two days ago, critically wounding a teenager and moderately wounding the bus driver, in an attack that sparked the latest round of border fighting.

"It was not known that the bus targeted on the outskirts of Gaza carried schoolchildren," spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told Reuters, adding that the road where the bus was travelling was often used by Israeli military vehicles.

I'm sorry....what????

The evil Islamo-fascists of Hamas, the ones who seek the genocide of the Jewish people and the mass-murder of all Israeli-Jews, is actually expressing regret at one of their terrorist operations???

How is this possible? Why would a terrorist group who honors and seeks to replecate the Nazis, actually express regret at the injuring of Jewish children?

what's....going...on???

That's easy.

It's because some people will believe anything.

 

[Stout]

That's easy.

It's because some people will believe anything.

Maybe Hamas has hired a PR firm and plans on playing to the west.

 

[mortimer]

evidence that I defend Hamas and their terrorist attacks? Good luck.

In the post above, which you clipped for convenience, apparently.

you have yet to deny it.

I deny it. Now, when will you deny defending Hamas?

 

[Virus]

Hamas haven't turned a new leaf Parky. They're just trying to talk their way out of getting hammered by the IDF. On the one hand Hamas have grown fat while in power through stealing and extortion. On the other hand, Palestinians need to see some dead Jews now and then, or they'll accuse Hamas of going soft. So Hamas need some dead Jews, but too many dead Jews will provoke an Israeli assault to liquidate Hamas.