General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[angrysoba]

do you read Arabic? perhaps you can translate the FB page to tell us what they actually say.

otherwise, I shall have my Egyptian buddy do it on Monday.

Translations are irrelevant to my point.

I fully believe that the page says that they are calling for peaceful demonstrations.

One more time: do you believe stone throwing is peaceful?

You can choose to ignore the question if you like which will be an obvious sign of your dishonesty. One that's clear to all but let me point out that it is you who defined intifadas the following way: protests and throwing rocks at Occupation forces. Not only do you see rock throwing as part of the intifada but indeed almost a moral duty of Palestinian youths. Yet if you agree that rock-throwing is not peaceful then you are in a bit of a predicament because that means the Facebook page which is calling for an intifada is lying by saying that it is restricted to peaceful protests. I mean, if even you know that intifada means rock-throwing then it is a lie to say it only means peaceful protests?

And if it means rock throwing then what else does it mean?

Well, as pointed out the ADL have said:

We should not be so naiive to believe that a campaign for a 'Third Intifada' does not portend renewed violence, especially in the current climate that has seen a dramatic increase in rocket attacks from Gaza, the brutal murder of the Fogel family in the West Bank, and a terrorist bombing in Jerusalem."

You're not so naiive either as it turns out so you yourself are being disingenuous. The problem is that:

The Second Palestinian Intifada was responsible for thousands of casualties and deaths through a campaign of terrorism against Israel that included suicide bombings of restaurants, buses, dance clubs and cafes.

This is what the ADL fear from a Third Intifada. They never once mention rock throwing. You mention rock throwing! And while you mention rock throwing to accuse the ADL of being semantically challenged it appears to be you who is. So, once again, do you consider rock throwing to be peaceful?

 

[Thunder]

Having zero doubt about a claim = trusting the claim

you're serious???

this is an actual serious post????

here is a word for you I would like you to look up and understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm




.....seriously, maybe take a break dude.

 

[Thunder]

Translations are irrelevant to my point.

I fully believe that the page says that they are calling for peaceful demonstrations.

why?

why do you believe that?

are not Arabs notorious for posting one thing in English, while a whole different meaning in Arabic?

if no one here can step up and translate the FB page, I'll have my Egyptian co-worker do it on Monday.

 

[angrysoba]

why?

why do you believe that?

are not Arabs notorious for posting one thing in English, while a whole different meaning in Arabic?

if no one here can step up and translate the FB page, I'll have my Egyptian co-worker do it on Monday.

It's irrelevant to my point and to your contention.

Now, is stone-throwing peaceful?

 

[Thunder]

It's irrelevant to my point and to your contention.

Now, is stone-throwing peaceful?

I disagree. the honesty of the page is very important, as far as the thread and the article in it, are concerned.

and no, unprotected civilians tossing stones at heavily armored IDF troops is not peaceful.

.....but it sure ain't terrorism.

 

[WildCat]

Now Thunder, is it your opinion that stone-throwing is peaceful?

It reminds me of those on board the Mavi Mamara peacefully protesting with clubs, knives, etc.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

You Parky, you never responded to my question.

 

[angrysoba]

unprotected civilians tossing stones at heavily armored IDF troops is not peaceful.

Thank you. I agree with you as does the whole world. We were just waiting for you to catch up.

So, an intifada is being called on Facebook. The organizers state that the intifada is peaceful yet even one of its dimmest supporters (that would be you) recognizes that intifadas at the very least involve non-peaceful means such as rock throwing meaning that the Facebook page is effectively lying.

This supports the ADL's contention that it would be naiive to think an intifada would be peaceful and history has shown us from previous intifadas that they went well beyond stone-throwing territory into suicide bombings etc...

Besides, the ADL's own statement merely began with the claim that any intifada would result in violence and merely elaborated to say that it could result in terrorism (note to Thunder: suicide bombings of buses is terrorism!) as it did in the second intifada.

So we can conclude that this little bit of faux-moral indignation on your part was concocted purely out of a wanton misreading of the ADL statement and/or your inability to read properly and/or think critically and that further even you know that any intifada will result in more than mere peaceful protests and that at the very least it is irresponsible to call for it given the history of such things.

 

[Pardalis]

It reminds me of those on board the Mavi Mamara peacefully protesting with clubs, knives, etc.

I thought that was "activism"?

 

[Skeptic]

They call for a third intifada. Judging from how violent and destructive the two earlier ones went, their claim that they only call for peaceful protests is highly unlikely.

Hey, what's the worse that can happen? Dead Jews? Big deal. Is that a reason to get all whiny and start complaining, like the ADL did?

 

[Thunder]

Hey, what's the worse that can happen? Dead Jews? Big deal.

that's a horrible thing to say about Jews.

 

[Skeptic]

I doubt the sincerety of people who claim to have nothing against Jews, yet are far more outraged at a Jewish organization pointing out terrorism against Jews might occur than they ever are at the actual act of terrorism.

If I had any evidence they are sincere, I would apologize for doubting their sincerety. I would start doubting their sanity, instead.

 

[Skeptic]

I've got certain posters on "ignore", so let me guess: they're trying to give Hamas the benefit of every doubt and make it look as good as possible, clearly twisting its own words to do so, aren't they.

Were I a Hamas member, I'd be quite insulted at all these attempts to make it seem I don't really mean it when I say I want to kill Jews, or, if I do, that I have no choice in the matter because I just have to act that way as some sort of uncontrollable response on to Israel's actions. That makes me into either a hypocrite or a robot, the two things that Hamas terrorists, as much as I hate them, most emphatically are not.

 

[Virus]

I've got certain posters on "ignore", so let me guess: they're trying to give Hamas the benefit of every doubt and make it look as good as possible, clearly twisting its own words to do so, aren't they.

Were I a Hamas member, I'd be quite insulted at all these attempts to make it seem I don't really mean it when I say I want to kill Jews, or, if I do, that I have no choice in the matter because I just have to act that way as some sort of uncontrollable response on to Israel's actions. That makes me into either a hypocrite or a robot, the two things that Hamas terrorists, as much as I hate them, most emphatically are not.

True in principle. But Hamas keep the Jew killing and Nazi stuff out of English language material because it benefits them to have useful idiots in the West do their PR for them.

 

[Skeptic]

I dunno. Certain posters in this thread defended Hamas concerning its holocaust denial, too, so...

 

[Virus]

I guess so. Makes it worse if someone knowingly supports a fascist and racist movement than if they were duped by Palestinian PR.

 

[bit_pattern]

Good to see this debate has really gone places since I've been gone, really matured. A testament to all involved

 

[angrysoba]

Good to see this debate has really gone places since I've been gone, really matured. A testament to all involved

Thanks for expressing your concern and raising the level of debate.

 

[Thunder]

I doubt the sincerety of people who claim to have nothing against Jews, yet are far more outraged at a Jewish organization pointing out terrorism against Jews might occur than they ever are at the actual act of terrorism.

ah, so non-Jews are never the victims of terrorism in Israel?

gotcha.

 

[angrysoba]

ah, so non-Jews are never the victims of terrorism in Israel?

gotcha.

It's nice to see you declaring victory but of course the point is that the second intifada most certainly did include suicide bombings aimed at Jews. The ADL is concerned - to put it mildly - that another intifada will entail further terrorism against Jews.

You're quite right, of course, in saying that non-Jews are also killed in terrorist attacks. The woman who was blown up by the Jerusalem bombing was of course a Christian.

Can we take it that you are sanguine about all terrorist murders and not merely those against Jews?

Well, that is a consistency of a kind I suppose.