General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

You just said Gaza is occupied because Israel assumes control. Now you say Israel must ask permission of the territory it occupies.

Classic Parky right there.

...its funny, cause you totally have no idea what you just said...and how wrong it is.

...keep it up.

 

[theprestige]

You might understand what I did if you read the quote I was responding to and bear that in mind when reading the bit about Germany's occupation of Yugoslavia in Mycroft's source.

Done and done. Mycroft's source describes a present state of occupation.

Your reply attempts to combine a past state of occupation with the potential for a future state of occupation, to make a present state of occupation.

According to Mycroft, any present state of occupation counts as an occupation. This should go without saying, but apparently some people don't understand it even when it's explained to them.

According to you, America presently occupies Mexico, because it did so in the past and could do so in the future. This is laughable on its face, but apparently some people think it's a serious argument.

 

[The Fool]

According to you, America presently occupies Mexico, because it did so in the past and could do so in the future. This is laughable on its face, but apparently some people think it's a serious argument.

You think? can you link to where firegarden said this? I agree its a laughable theory...That the US is the effective occupying power of Mexico. I'd love the person who is suggesting this to step forward.....I have a couple of questions for them.

 

[FireGarden]

Done and done. Mycroft's source describes a present state of occupation.

Your reply attempts to combine a past state of occupation with the potential for a future state of occupation, to make a present state of occupation.

According to Mycroft, any present state of occupation counts as an occupation. This should go without saying, but apparently some people don't understand it even when it's explained to them.

According to you, America presently occupies Mexico, because it did so in the past and could do so in the future. This is laughable on its face, but apparently some people think it's a serious argument.

If that's your interpretation of what Mycroft's link says about Germany's occupation of Yugoslavia, then that is something you will have to live with. Everytime I get distracted into talking to other people about this, Mycroft responds to that instead of the points I made directly to him. I prefer to continue my conversation with Mycroft. (I can understand he's busy at the moment -- it happens to me too sometimes. And this thread is not an easy one to keep up with everytime there is another merged with it.)

 

[Virus]

Hamas threaten UN over plans to teach Holocaust in Gaza schools:

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1107ap_ml_hamas_un_holocaust.html

"Playing with the education of our children in the Gaza Strip is a red line," Hamas Education Minister, Mohammed Asqoul told a website of the group. He said Hamas will block attempts to teach the Holocaust "regardless of the price."

It's funny that Hamas should be outraged at "playing with children's education". Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have been indoctrinating kids with Nazi propaganda for decades. Palestinian kids don't go to school, they go to brainwashing. It all goes back to the Nazi-collaborating Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who lead the early Arab revolts against the Jewish state.

Nazi propaganda isn't the obstacle to peace though. Throughout history Nazis have lived in peace with their neighbors. The real problem is Jews building apartment blocks in their neighborhoods.

 

[Thunder]

Hamas threaten UN over plans to teach Holocaust in Gaza schools:

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1107ap_ml_hamas_un_holocaust.html



It's funny that Hamas should be outraged at "playing with children's education". Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have been indoctrinating kids with Nazi propaganda for decades. Palestinian kids don't go to school, they go to brainwashing. It all goes back to the Nazi-collaborating Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who lead the early Arab revolts against the Jewish state.

Nazi propaganda isn't the obstacle to peace though. Throughout history Nazis have lived in peace with their neighbors. The real problem is Jews building apartment blocks in their neighborhoods.

why should the Arabs teach their children about the Holocaust, when Israel refuses to official recognize the genocide of the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans & refuses to acknowledge that many of the Arab refugees from Israel in 1948 were forced out by the army?

teach children about the Holocaust while refusing Arab refugees the right of return..or even compensation? wow.

chutzpah.

 

[Thunder]

plus the fact that a new law may be passed in the Knesset making it illegal and punishable by time in prison, if anyone peacefully and publically honors the hundreds of thousands of Arab refugees during 1948, on Israel Independence Day.

The Palestinians are asked to learn about the Holocaust, while the Israelis might make it illegal to honor a massive Arab tragedy? I don't think so.

 

[IDB87]

why should the Arabs teach their children about the Holocaust

It isn't the Arabs, it's the U.N.

And why? Probably because Hamas has called it a Zionist lie. That's why they don't want it taught - because they think it never happened, which does WONDERS at making this stupid conflict even worse.

when Israel refuses to official recognize the genocide of the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans & refuses to acknowledge that many of the Arab refugees from Israel in 1948 were forced out by the army?

teach children about the Holocaust while refusing Arab refugees the right of return..or even compensation? wow.

chutzpah.

Balderdash.

 

[mortimer]

why should the Arabs teach their children about the Holocaust, when Israel refuses to official recognize the genocide of the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans & refuses to acknowledge that many of the Arab refugees from Israel in 1948 were forced out by the army?

teach children about the Holocaust while refusing Arab refugees the right of return..or even compensation? wow.

chutzpah.

You do realize that the Holocaust involved Jews, not Israelis, right? Or do you believe that Israeli==Jew?

 

[Thunder]

You do realize that the Holocaust involved Jews, not Israelis, right? Or do you believe that Israeli==Jew?

why should Palestinian children be required to learn about the Holocaust, while the Israeli govt. refuses to officially recognize the Armenian genocide, take ANY responsibility for the 60+ year exile of 750,000 Arabs fron 1948, and is even possibly going to pass a law making it a crime to honor these exils and their suffering on Israeli Independence Day?

and btw, Yom Ha'Shoah is an official Israeli holiday.

asking the Palestinians to honor the suffering and tragedies of the Jews, while Israel ignores the suffering of others and even considers making it a crime to publicly acknowledge & honor the suffering of others, is disgusting & pathetic.

 

[IDB87]

why should Palestinian children be required to learn about the Holocaust, while the Israeli govt. refuses to officially recognize the Armenian genocide, take ANY responsibility for the 60+ year exile of 750,000 Arabs fron 1948, and is even possibly going to pass a law making it a crime to honor these exils and their suffering on Israeli Independence Day?

and btw, Yom Ha'Shoah is an official Israeli holiday.

asking the Palestinians to honor the suffering and tragedies of the Jews, while Israel ignores the suffering of others and even considers making it a crime to publicly acknowledge & honor the suffering of others, is disgusting & pathetic.

Israeli==Jew then?

 

[mortimer]

why should Palestinian children be required to learn about the Holocaust, while the Israeli govt. refuses to officially recognize the Armenian genocide, take ANY responsibility for the 60+ year exile of 750,000 Arabs fron 1948, and is even possibly going to pass a law making it a crime to honor these exils and their suffering on Israeli Independence Day?

and btw, Yom Ha'Shoah is an official Israeli holiday.

asking the Palestinians to honor the suffering and tragedies of the Jews, while Israel ignores the suffering of others and even considers making it a crime to publicly acknowledge & honor the suffering of others, is disgusting & pathetic.

Because the terms Israel and Jew are not interchangeable. Israel didn't even exist during the Holocaust. So why should what Israel does or doesn't do have any effect on what is taught as history?

Second, teaching about something isn't "honor"ing it. When I was taught about Nazi Germany and Hitler, I was not honoring them.

I'll tell you what is disgusting and pathetic: leaving a major world event out of a history curriculum because you are racist. Just as disgusting and pathetic are those that defend the racism.

 

[IDB87]

I'll tell you what is disgusting and pathetic: leaving a major world event out of a history curriculum because you are racist. Just as disgusting and pathetic are those that defend the racism.

You gave Thunder a possible "AHA! You mean, just like ISRAEL IS DOING!" opportunity here.

I suspect this is what will happen next, and your other points are ignored.

 

[Mycroft]

You do realize that the Holocaust involved Jews, not Israelis, right? Or do you believe that Israeli==Jew?

Not only that, but he seems to be claiming that Israeli students are not taught about the Armenian Genocide. I haven't seen the curriculum of Israeli schools, but that's a claim that should have some evidence to back it up.

Israeli==Jew then?

Regardless, the Holocaust has certainly had a profound impact on the political history of the region, it would be negligent in the extreme not to teach it.

 

[IDB87]

Not only that, but he seems to be claiming that Israeli students are not taught about the Armenian Genocide. I haven't seen the curriculum of Israeli schools, but that's a claim that should have some evidence to back it up.

Or that it's an Armenian LIE used to justify atrocities Armenians commit.

 

[Thunder]

Israeli==Jew then?

Israel is the Jewish State, is it not?

 

[Thunder]

I'll tell you what is disgusting and pathetic: leaving a major world event out of a history curriculum because you are racist. Just as disgusting and pathetic are those that defend the racism.

its also disgusting & pathetic for the Knesset to refuse to recognize the Armenian Genocide. ands its disgusting & pathetic to even consider criminalizing peacefully honoring the Nakba during Israeli Independence Day.

 

[Thunder]

Not only that, but he seems to be claiming that Israeli students are not taught about the Armenian Genocide.

silly of you to put words in my mouth.

 

[IDB87]

Israel is the Jewish State, is it not?

Not all Jews are Israeli.

What does this have to do with the fact that Hamas is refusing to teach the Holocaust to their students because they believe the Holocaust is a Zionist lie?

 

[IDB87]

its also disgusting & pathetic for the Knesset to refuse to recognize the Armenian Genocide. ands its disgusting & pathetic to even consider criminalizing peacefully honoring the Nakba during Israeli Independence Day.

The United Kingdom, Denmark, and several states of our great Union don't recognize the Armenian genocide - does that mean it's touted as an Armenian lie and not taught in schools?