General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

The context of who the underlined "them" and "people" are is clearly Hamas.

Don't be so sure of that.

The Neo-Zionists in this thread hold the people of Gaza responsible for the election of Hamas to lead the PA, and feel that the people of Gaza deserve to suffer the consequences of this action.

 

[Thunder]

They're at war. Israel can and will defend itself.

if Israel no longer Occupies the Gaza Strip, than it is ILLEGAL for them to use its airspace, its territorial waters, or its land...without the official consent of the PA in Gaza.

any violations of its water, land, or air...would be a violation of Gaza's soverignity and the people of Gaza would have the legal right to shoot any boat out of the water, any plane out of the sky, or any Israeli who steps foot in Gaza.

this is what it means if the Israeli-Occupation of Gaza is indeed over.

 

[Virus]

Don't be so sure of that.

The Neo-Zionists in this thread hold the people of Gaza responsible for the election of Hamas to lead the PA, and feel that the people of Gaza deserve to suffer the consequences of this action.

Um....duh.

 

[Virus]

if Israel no longer Occupies the Gaza Strip, than it is ILLEGAL for them to use its airspace, its territorial waters, or its land...without the official consent of the PA in Gaza.

any violations of its water, land, or air...would be a violation of Gaza's soverignity and the people of Gaza would have the legal right to shoot any boat out of the water, any plane out of the sky, or any Israeli who steps foot in Gaza.

this is what it means if the Israeli-Occupation of Gaza is indeed over.

There is no PA in Gaza. It split and they don't recognize each other. Israel does't need permission to defend itself from terrorists.

 

[Thunder]

There is no PA in Gaza. It split and they don't recognize each other. Israel does't need permission to defend itself from terrorists.

do you accept that the people of Gaza have the right to shoot Israeli planes out of the sky, Israeli boats out of the water, and Israeli soldiers out of their boots?

that's what happens when Occupation ends. the territory has the right to defend itself against invaders.

if the Israeli Occupation is indeed over, then Gaza has the right to blow Israel out of its skies, its waters, and its soil.

 

[Thunder]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...oft-on-west-bank-building-violations-1.350718

Israel lends a blind eye to more permanent illegal housing, focusing more on tin shacks and other crap.

 

[Virus]

do you accept that the people of Gaza have the right to shoot Israeli planes out of the sky, Israeli boats out of the water, and Israeli soldiers out of their boots?

that's what happens when Occupation ends. the territory has the right to defend itself against invaders.

if the Israeli Occupation is indeed over, then Gaza has the right to blow Israel out of its skies, its waters, and its soil.

They aren't a sovereign state. They're a criminal terrorist enclave.

 

[Cobalt]

Cheers Cobalt

Don't be so sure of that.

Well the context seems pretty clear to me. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, so let's find out if I am.

WildCat, did I misconstrue your statement? If so, may I request clarification?

The Neo-Zionists in this thread hold the people of Gaza responsible for the election of Hamas to lead the PA, and feel that the people of Gaza deserve to suffer the consequences of this action.

You make your bed and all that jazz.

 

[WildCat]

WildCat, did I misconstrue your statement? If so, may I request clarification?

Nope. In fact, it was Thunder's constant (and IMHO deliberate since I don't think he's as stupid as he acts) misrepresentation of my posts that earned him the distinction of being the first and only (and hopefully last) person on my ignore list after 8 years on this forum.

 

[Thunder]

They aren't a sovereign state. They're a criminal terrorist enclave.

its not that simple, Virus.

 

[Toontown]

the only double-standard, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives, are the ones that Neo-Zionists apply.

Your statement reeks of double-standard, hypocrisy and ulterior motives. Anyone with a nose can smell it. It stinks.

 

[Thunder]

Your statement reeks of double-standard, hypocrisy and ulterior motives.

 

[Skeptic]

its not that simple, Virus.

For some people on this forum (certainly not everybody who criticizes Israel here), when someone says that he is, say, a republican or a conservative, things are very simple: he is an awful man. But when someone says he will genocide the Jews given the chance, suddenly it is "not that simple".

Here's an example:

1). Opposing (say) state subsidies for unmarried couples: EVIL.

2). Massacring Jews: we'll get back to you on that one. Maybe bad. Sometimes it's worthy of condemnation. Sorta. When we can't think of some out-of-thin-air way to blame the Jews for it after all. ("Root causes" and all that, you know.)

 

[Toontown]

the only double-standard, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives, are the ones that Neo-Zionists apply.

So. Do you mean to say "Neo-Zionists" are the only propagators of "double-standards, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives", or do you mean to say anyone who propagates double-standards, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives is automatically a "Neo-Zionist", by definition?

Ironize that.

 

[Thunder]

So. Do you mean to say "Neo-Zionists" are the only propagators of "double-standards, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives", or do you mean to say anyone who propagates double-standards, hypocrisy, and ulterior motives is automatically a "Neo-Zionist", by definition?

what do YOU think?

 

[Mycroft]

And yet you are, again, in an overwhelming minority on the subject of occupation. Who else argues that Fallujah wasn't occupied May 2004?

I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and frankly I don't really understand the argument you're trying to make here, but if it hinges on US forces not occupying Fallujah in May of 2004, then here is a Wikipedia article that describes the insurgents as being the occupiers at that time. If that terminology was common at that time, I don't know, but if it wasn't, I'd suspect because it was more a technical issue than a matter of practical importance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah_during_the_Iraq_War#Siege.2C_April_2004

 

[Thunder]

If Israel indeed does not occupy Gaza, that means it would be illegal for Israel to use Gaza's airspace, right guys?

It would also be illegal for Israel to use Gaza's territorial waters, right guys?

 

[IDB87]

what do YOU think?

Now that's not very polite Thunder.

Why do you do this whenever anyone asks for you to clarify something you say?

 

[Thunder]

Now that's not very polite Thunder.

Why do you do this whenever anyone asks for you to clarify something you say?

I respond in such a fashion when folks ask me a very stupid or clearly obvious question.

Asking me if I believe that anyone who expresses a double-standard, hypocrisy, or ulterior-motives is a "Neo-Zionist", is a pretty stupid question.

 

[IDB87]

If Israel indeed does not occupy Gaza, that means it would be illegal for Israel to use Gaza's airspace, right guys?

It would also be illegal for Israel to use Gaza's territorial waters, right guys?

Used it in what way Thunder?

Does a state of belligerency exist between Hamas and Israel?