• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thunder said:
this article says that a gay man fled to Israel after being assaulted by some cops for being gay. he stayed in Israel out of fear, and now the Israeli govt. has sent him back.

yikes...I'm not sure which is worse.

being assaulted by some cops for being gay, or being forced back to a country where you fear for your life, by official government order.

one represents the actions of a few thugs, while the other is official national government policy.
Click to expand...

Yeah because it's all Israel's fault that the PA and Hamas beat and kill gays.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Yeah because it's all Israel's fault that the PA and Hamas beat and kill gays.
Click to expand...

please name a gay person who was executed in the PA or Gaza.

oh, and yes...if a person flees to another country out of fear for his life due to persecution of his sexuality, and that country sends him back knowing the risks, and that person ends up being killed when he goes back, the nation that sent him back is indeed partially responsible.

ever heard of the St. Louis?


...we now have two folks falsely claiming that the PA has killed gays. no evidence has been provided.
 
Last edited:
Sword_Of_Truth said:
So why do you think that progressives like "Queers for palestine" support states that engage in violence against homosexuals?
Click to expand...
I think they do it solely to be Exhibit A in describing the term "useful idiots".
 
Thunder said:
please name a gay person who was executed in the PA or Gaza.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you are going to call executed. Many of the stories I have found so far go pretty much the same way. Masked men turn up, kidnap the person and then the body is returned in a plastic bag, no trial, no nothing, just torture and death, I'm guessing that won't meet your version of execution though. Often they are tried as Collaborators when they do get a trial.

oh, and yes...if a person flees to another country out of fear for his life due to persecution of his sexuality, and that country sends him back knowing the risks, and that person ends up being killed when he goes back, the nation that sent him back is indeed partially responsible.
Click to expand...

A lot of Palestinians seek refuge in Israel and most get to stay there.

...we now have two folks falsely claiming that the PA has killed gays. no evidence has been provided.
Click to expand...

I have given you plenty, go and read up on it yourself. Google it yourself, there is plenty out there saying it.

Like this:

The abusive treatment of gays by the Palestinian Authority--which does not differ much from the abusive treatment of gays in most other Arab and Muslim societies--is conclusively documented. Take just one story—in the May 2003 issue of Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide by Charity Crouse (who is described in the story as a “Jewish lesbian anti-occupation activist”). Tarek, a young Palestinian gay man suspected of homosexuality, was sentenced to a “reeducation” camp run by Muslim clerics under Palestinian Authority jurisdiction. He said that for a period of two months he was “subjected to beatings with belts, clubs, and was forced to sit on bottles which were inserted into my rectum. I was hanged by the hands, I was deprived of sleep, and when I finally did sleep, my limbs were tied to the floor.”

Tarek was lucky—he wasn’t executed. Stories like Tarek’s are not unusual, and help explain why a gay Palestinian underground—unfortunately, composed mostly of prostitution and other illicit activity—thrives in Israel, where so many gay Palestinians have fled. By contrast, Tel Aviv has a flourishing gay culture and Jerusalem will host the 2006 WorldPride festival in August.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
But two years ago Hussein was kidnapped from his home, most likely by Fatah men, who wanted to "shake" him up and check whether he is a collaborator. "They kidnapped me because I had long hair," he relates. "They took me to a large empty area, where they beat me up and dragged me on the ground. They interrogated me with regard to sex with men. I told them that I was not gay. Had I admitted to them that I was gay, it would have meant that I am a collaborator. They beat me with sticks and stones. Every time I said 'no' they hit me. I said that I love Palestine and I would never in my life work for Israel. Finally at 12:30 after midnight they put me in a car and dropped me off near the house." The Palestinian security service has also not overlooked Hussein and Samar and invites them for "visits." Hussein says, "They write down all that I say, but they have no proof; they have not caught me. Sometimes I think that they would like to catch me."
Click to expand...

Such nice people
 
Tel Aviv, OTOH, is fun, free and fabulous!

IMG_2762_small.jpg
 
It shouldn't be believes that it's all beer and skittles in Israel either. Most of the 300+ palestinians in Israel are in hiding because they are there illegally, and if caught they face lengthy couty battles to avoid deportation (which most seem to manage in the end.)

Life in Palestine is worse though, facing torture and death from your own family, your neighbours and the authorities. Israel seem to be a little to blame for some of it as they seek them out and force them to collaberate or be outed, which has given the PA and Hamas the ability to execute any gay as a collaborator. The police often seek them out as well, as they can force them to work for them too, or face torture and death.

Not a pretty picture for them any which way.
 
Who's to say there is a solution? Palestine won some autonomy and has been run by racketeers and crooks ever since. Those crooks are doing well. All they have to do is provide a little ideological cover for their racketeering and keep the pot boiling over just enough to keep the foreign aid bonanza coming in. The only thing they need worry about is boiling things over too much and provoking an Israeli smackdown. Hamas made that mistake in 2006.

So what's the solution to that? There isn't one.
 
Last edited:
I'm sure these massed protests against Hamas are going to happen any day now...
 
I fully expect the folks who kept blaming Israel for "not dealing with the democratic choice of the Palestinian people" just because they want it destroyed and the Jews dead to apologize.

Yeah, dreaming, I know.
 
Skeptic said:
I fully expect the folks who kept blaming Israel for "not dealing with the democratic choice of the Palestinian people" just because they want it destroyed and the Jews dead to apologize.
Click to expand...

why...has Hamas destroyed Israel or killed all the Jews yet?
 
I do not think we will see much in Gaza until Egypt has settled into stability or a more perpetual state of dissaray. A unified Egypt under a unified traditional Muslim Brotherhood with clear support for Hamas could be a major source of momentum for Hamas. A unified Egypt with a Muslim Brotherhood that splits into the various factions of vastly different goals could be a major threat to Hamas. A divisive Egypt could remove its resources as a major factor for Gaza. The Egypt factor having such wide unpredictable possibilities likely weighs heavily on both Hamas and any speculative opposition movements.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom