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Ed General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 3

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Argumemnon said:
Oh, you know when a woman says she's not a feminist because she disagrees with their methods, they claim that she has internalised misogyny. It's a nice way to dismiss them.
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I'm not sure it's possible for anyone on this planet not to have internalized misogyny, to some degree or another.
 
caveman1917 said:
None of the ones I know would go like: if a woman disagrees with, say, throwing molotov cocktails at an MRA office then she is a self-hating woman.

I'm not buying it.
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Then look it up. I've seen it used a lot these last few months. Don't take my word for it. You should have an easy time finding the term used.
 
Craig B said:
I think you're having us on. You don't believe Europe is going to go all Nazi genocidal at all.

Your real target is the existence of laws repressing racist speech and action. You don't like such laws.
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Those laws are in place out of fears that if they aren't in place it would be 1936 all over again.
 
Ziggurat said:
I would take it to mean "God is greater [than these kafir I'm killing]".



That works too.
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Being that it's also used as a cry of distress (e.g. during accidents), it seems to me to carry a far more self-reflective connotation than your interpretation would imply. It wouldn't make that much sense to a Jihadist who would presumably view the enemy as dirt. If there's one thing worth pointing out that God is greater at, it would be the struggle or stress the Jihadist experiences, and so he uses the cry to inspire courage in himself. It also, I would think he supposes, strikes fear into enemies, because he is saying "even if you kill me, God is greater still", i.e. I will fight to the death, and the cause never dies.

Invoking Allah to make a petty insult by comparison? That strikes me as sacrilegeous at best.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Being that it's also used as a cry of distress (e.g. during accidents), it seems to me to carry a far more self-reflective connotation than your interpretation would imply. It wouldn't make that much sense to a Jihadist who would presumably view the enemy as dirt. If there's one thing worth pointing out that God is greater at, it would be the struggle or stress the Jihadist experiences, and so he uses the cry to inspire courage in himself. It also, I would think he supposes, strikes fear into enemies, because he is saying "even if you kill me, God is greater still", i.e. I will fight to the death, and the cause never dies.

Invoking Allah to make a petty insult by comparison? That strikes me as sacrilegeous at best.
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I think that what it may connote to the murderer is far less important than what it may connote to his victims. We're under no obligation to understand what the terrorist feels as he detonates a bomb vest in a crowded restaurant.

If "allah akbar" is his catchphrase at the moment of truth, then we need go no further into its meaning than, "I am a murdering douchebag acting out a murdering douchebag ideology".
 
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theprestige said:
I think that what it may connote to the murderer is far less important than what it may connote to his victims. We're under no obligation to understand what the terrorist feels as he detonates a bomb vest in a crowded restaurant.

If "allah akbar" is his catchphrase at the moment of truth, then we need go no further into its meaning than, "I am a murdering douchebag acting out a murdering douchebag ideology".
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And when their victims also yell, "Allah akbar," while trying to stem the bleeding?

Context is important, always.
 
tyr_13 said:
And when their victims also yell, "Allah akbar," while trying to stem the bleeding?

Context is important, always.
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Yeah, like many Arabic phrases, it's brief, simple, widely used, but has varied and complex meanings depending on context. To reduce it to "my God is bigger than yours" or something similar is incorrect and diminishing of the language.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Being that it's also used as a cry of distress (e.g. during accidents), it seems to me to carry a far more self-reflective connotation than your interpretation would imply.
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I disagree. I think the fact that it's used so ubiquitously, and in so many situations, indicates that it's more reflexive than reflective. Plus, suicide bombers and the like don't mutter it under their breath, they shout it. That's performative, NOT meditative.

It wouldn't make that much sense to a Jihadist who would presumably view the enemy as dirt. If there's one thing worth pointing out that God is greater at, it would be the struggle or stress the Jihadist experiences, and so he uses the cry to inspire courage in himself. It also, I would think he supposes, strikes fear into enemies, because he is saying "even if you kill me, God is greater still", i.e. I will fight to the death, and the cause never dies.
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That latter usage is perfectly in line with what I said. And as for inspiring courage, well, the idea that the enemy will tremble before you is very useful for that, so that's pretty compatible as well.

Invoking Allah to make a petty insult by comparison? That strikes me as sacrilegeous at best.
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When you're killing people, insults are never petty.
 
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TubbaBlubba said:
Yeah, like many Arabic phrases, it's brief, simple, widely used, but has varied and complex meanings depending on context. To reduce it to "my God is bigger than yours" or something similar is incorrect and diminishing of the language.
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Well, perhaps we can bring this full circle ?

Whatever it means, it does NOT mean "God is Great", which is what the media reports it as.
 
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