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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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MG1962 said:
And are you going to argue the Jews invented destabilizing their neighbors for they own advantage, or that in the modern world that Israel is the only country doing it?

And the Liberty incident - Well there is a great reason to hate a whole people. Maybe the world should hate the US for the shoot down of flight 655
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You got to love this. First you admit that three of the biggest names in the Holocaust Industry are liars then you admit Israel is currently destabilizing countries in the ME and Africa so that the US will come in and kick their goy tookuses.
 
Clayton Moore said:
You got to love this. First you admit that three of the biggest names in the Holocaust Industry are liars then you admit Israel is currently destabilizing countries in the ME and Africa so that the US will come in and kick their goy tookuses.
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This is just sad...

:boggled:
 
Clayton Moore said:
You got to love this. First you admit that three of the biggest names in the Holocaust Industry are liars
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You see, I don't think that MG1962 said anything like that at all. He gave you a couple conditionals . . . which may be over your head . . . "if" . . . "might" . . . these were the words he used.

Anyway, we have all observed more dodging and failure from you and Dogzilla . . . your efforts are almost exclusively devoted to making silly declarations about extraneous issues (9/11?!?!?!) and going over and over why you won't/can't discuss the actual history . . . The reason is clear, too: you don't know the history, and you have nothing significant to say about it, not about any of the core documents, not about the historical works making up the best scholarship on the Third Reich and the Holocaust.

It is clearly lost on you as well that people with very different opinions about Israel and the Middle East today can and do, in fact, understand the history of the Holocaust - whilst still disagreeing on how they view Israel. Today.

You come across to be publicly announcing your intent to read your political and ideological views - and your prejudices - back into the history of the Third Reich.

Carry on.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
You got to love this. First you admit that three of the biggest names in the Holocaust Industry are liars then you admit Israel is currently destabilizing countries in the ME and Africa so that the US will come in and kick their goy tookuses.
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Your dodge of avoiding the real questions I asked to concentrate on presumptions from your own mind is note.

So lets try again Clayton, two nice simple questions for you

Are you suggesting antisemitism didn't exist before WW2. And please feel free to show how the nation of Israel was birthed out of the myth of the holocaust.

 
MG1962 said:
LOL - wrong again. They were still settling Titanic law suits 50 years after the event

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-survivor-finally-awarded-280.html
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U R Kidding? Right? Fifty years after the Titanic sank, some guy got $280? Your analogy epically fails yet again because the last $280 in holocash wasn't awarded to some "survivor" in 1995.


Err no - you claim I said they were liars, which we both know I never did, the point (who's subtlety is obviously beyond you) IF they were liars, what would change.............
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Err no. You didn't say IF they were liars. You said IF they were the only source of information about the holocaust, CM might have a point.
 
Dogzilla said:
Your analogy epically fails yet again because the last $280 in holocash wasn't awarded to some "survivor" in 1995.
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And you can, of course, document the last award for a survivor (please note the lack of sneer quotes) of the Holocaust? Exactly when was that, again?

*Your* analogy epically fails, since it was not "the British taxpayers, British industrialists, Swiss banks, etc." who caused the Titanic to sink.

It was a specific company, who finally paid the last of the claims close to ten years later, and whose legal authority over the actions of its employees made them liable -- in addition to which your suggestion that no compensation was offered by any responsible party was documentably wrong.

In the case of the Holocaust, it was specific claims about the entire German government at the time (supported by German taxpayers), certain specific companies with German subsidiaries funded by specific German industrialists, and Swiss banks who helped in the laundering of monies looted from the victims who paid some compensation.

No one without your rabid need to deny history fails to see the difference.

And BTW, one notes that once again you couldn't be bothered to actually *read* the source to which you were referred.

Who was that again that spent several posts explaining why zie wouldn't comment on things about which zie didn't have any knowledge?
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Nick Terry said:
The country whose scholars pay most attention to the Holocaust is hands-down, Germany. They do so of their own free will. Their scholarship is the gold standard which everyone else is expected to read and digest. And their productivity is ferocious. Here are just a few of the more prominent examples of works written about the Holocaust and directly related issues by German historians in the past two years:

  • Anders, Freja, Stoll, Katrin, Wilke, Karsten (eds), Der Judenrat von Bialystok. Dokumente aus dem Archiv des Bialystoker Ghettos 1941-1943. Paderborn: Schöningh, 2010
  • Bajohr, Frank and Christoph Strupp (eds), Fremde Blicke auf das ‘Dritte Reich’: Berichte ausländischer Diplomaten über Herrschaft und Gesellschaft in Deutschland 1933-1945. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2011
  • Baum, Herwig, Varianten des Terrors. Ein Vergleich zwischen der deutschen und rumänischen Besatzungsverwaltung in der Sowjetunion 1941-1944. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Benz, Angelika and Marija Vulesica (eds), Bewachung und Ausführung. Alltag der Täter in nationalsozialistischen Lagern. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Benz, Angelika, Der Henkersknecht: Der Prozess gegen John (Iwan) Demjanjuk in München, Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Benz, Wolfgang, Barbara Distel, Angelika Königseder (eds), Nationalsozialistische Zwangslager. Strukturen und Regionen, Täter und Opfer. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Buser, Verena, Ueberleben von Kindern und Jugendlichen in den Konzentrationslagern Sachsenhausen, Auschwitz und Bergen-Belsen. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Christ, Michaela, Die Dynamik des Tötens: Die Ermordung der Juden in Berditschew. Frankfurt am Main: Fischer, 2011
  • Conze, Eckhart, Norbert Frei, Peter Hayes, Moshe Zimmermann, Das Amt und die Vergangenheit: Deutsche Diplomaten im Dritten Reich und in der Bundesrepublik. Karl Blessing Verlag, 2010
  • Cramer, John, Belsen-Trial 1945. Der Lüneberger Prozess gegen Wachpersonal der Konzentrationslager Auschwitz und Bergen-Belsen. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2011
  • Curilla, Wolfgang, Der Judenmord in Polen und die Ordnungspolizei 1939-1945. Paderborn: Ferdinand Schöningh, 2011
  • Dieckmann, Christoph, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 1941-1944. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2011
  • Friedrich, Klaus-Peter (ed), Die Verfolgung und Ermordung der europäischen Juden durch das nationalsozialistischen Deutschland 1933-1945. Bd 4: Polen September 1939-Juli 1941. Munich: Oldenbourg, 2011
  • Gerlach, Christian, Extremely Violent Societies: Mass Violence in the Twentieth-Century World. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2010 (a German historian)
  • Gerwarth, Robert. Hitler’s Hangman. The Life of Heydrich. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2011 (a German historian)
  • Greiser, Almut, Der Kommandant Josef Schwammberger: Ein NS-Täter in den Erinnerungen von Ueberlebenden. Berlin: Aufbau Verlag, 2011
  • Gruner, Wolf and Osterloh, Jörg (eds), Das ‘Grossdeutsche Reich’ und die Juden. Nationalsozialistische Verfolgung in den ‘angegliederten Gebieten’. Frankfurt am Main: Campus Verlag, 2010
  • Hess, Christiane, Julia Hörath, Dominique Schröder, Kim Wünschmann (eds), Kontinuitäten und Brüche: Neue Perspektiven auf die Geschichte der NS-Konzentrationslager. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Hoppe, Bert and Hildrun Glass (eds), Die Verfolgung und Ermordung der europäischen Juden durch das nationalsozialistischen Deutschland 1933-1945. Bd 7: Sowjetunion mit annektierten Gebiete I. Munich: Oldenbourg, 2011
  • Kammerhofer, Andrea, Brigitte Kepplinger, Irene Leitner (eds), Dameron Report. Bericht des War Crimes Investigating Team No 6824 der US Army vom 17.7.1945 über die Tötungsanstalt Hartheim. Vienna: StudienVerlag, 2011
  • Keller, Rolf, Sowjetische Kriegsgefangene im Deutschen Reich 1941/42. Behandlung und Arbeitseinsatz zwischen Vernichtungspolitik und kriegswirtschaftlichen Zwängen. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2011
  • Kühne, Thomas, Belonging and Genocide: Hitler’s Community, 1918-1945. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2010 (a German historian)
  • Kuretsidis-Haider, Claudia, Irmgard Nöbauer, Winfried Garscha, Siegfried Sanwald, Andrzej Selerowicz (eds), Das KL Lublin-Majdanek und die Justiz. Strafverfolgung und verweigerte Gerechtigkeit. Polen, Deutschland und Oesterreich im Vergleich. Vienna: CLIO, 2011
  • Lang, Hans-Joachim, Die Frauen von Block 11. Medizinische Versuche in Auschwitz. Hamburg: Hoffmann und Campe Verlag, 2011
  • Longerich, Peter, Heinrich Himmler. A Life. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2011 (originally in German)
  • Longerich, Peter, Holocaust. The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2010 (originally in German)
  • Löw, Andrea and Markus Roth, Juden in Krakau unter deutscher Besatzung 1939-1944. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2011
  • Mallmann, Klaus-Michel, Andrej Angrick, Jürgen Matthäus, Martin Cüppers (eds), Die ‘Ereignismeldungen UdSSR’ 1941. Dokumente der Einsatzgruppen in der Sowjetunion. Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 2011
  • Meyer, Ahlrich, Das Wissen um Auschwitz, Täter und Opfer der ‘Endlösung’ in Westeuropa. Paderborn: Schöningh, 2010
  • Mick, Christoph, Kriegserfahrungen in einer multiethnischen Stadt: Lemberg 1914-1947. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 2011.
  • Mlynarczyk, Jacek Andrezj and Böhler, Jochen (eds), Der Judenmord in den eingegliederten polnischen Gebieten 1939-1945. Osnabrück: fibre Verlag, 2010
  • Morsch, Günter, Bertrand Perz, Astrid Ley (eds), Neue Studien zu nationalsozialistischen Massentötungen durch Giftgas, Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Neitzel, Sönke and Harald Welzer, Soldaten: Protokolle vom Kämpfen, Töten und Sterben. Frankfurt am Main: Fischer, 2011
  • Neumann, Boaz, Die Weltanschauung des Nazismus: Raum – Körper – Sprache. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2010
  • Osterloh, Jörg and Clemens Vollnhals (eds), NS-Prozesse und Deutsche Oeffentlichkeit: Besatzungszeit, Frühe Bundesrepublik und DDR. Göttingen: Vandenhoek & Ruprecht, 2011
  • Reichelt, Katrin, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944. Der lettische Anteil am Holocaust. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Rentrop, Petra, Tatorte der ‘Endlösung’. Das Ghetto Minsk und die Vernichtungsstätte von Maly Trostinez. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Riedel, Dirk, Ordnungshüter und Massenmörder im Dienst der ‘Volksgemeinschaft’. Der KZ-Kommandant Hans Loritz. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Riedle, Andrea, Die Kommandanturstabsangehörigen des KZ Sachsenhausen: Sozialstruktur, Dienstwege und biografische Studien. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Schüle, Annegret, Industrie und Holocaust. Topf & Söhne – Die Ofenbauer von Auschwitz. Göttingen: Wallstein Verlag, 2010
  • Steegmann, Robert, Das Konzentrationslager Natzweiler-Struthof und seine Aussenkommandos an Rhein und Neckar 1941-1945. Berlin: Metropol, 2010
  • Wefing, Heinrich, Der Fall Demjanjuk: der letzte grosse NS-Prozess. Das Leben, der Prozess, das Urteil. Berlin: Beck, 2011
  • Weigelt, Andreas, Judenmord im Reichsgebiet. Lieberose: Aussenlager des KZ Sachsenhausen. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
  • Wette, Wolfram, Karl Jäger: Mörder der litauischen Juden. Frankfurt am Main: Fischer, 2011
  • Wrochem, Oliver von and Jockheck, Lars (eds), Das KZ Neuengamme und seine Aussenlager. Geschichte, Nachgeschichte, Erinnerung, Bildung. Berlin: Metropol Verlag, 2010
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Just to return to this for a moment, it nicely illustrates the point I made earlier in this thread that, if the Holocaust was a fraud in the way Saggy et. al. have claimed, then of all the places on the globe, the one with the most vested interest in demonstrating this fraud would be Germany. And yet, the scholarly research from that nation, the one with the greatest motivation to clear its name of involvement in the Holocaust and the most to gain from proving the Holocaust false, has and continues to firmly indicate the reality of the Holocaust.

Saggy et. al. basically hand-wave away this vitally important point.
 
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Corsair 115 said:
And yet, the scholarly research from that nation, the one with the greatest motivation to clear its name of involvement in the Holocaust and the most to gain from proving the Holocaust false, has and continues to firmly indicate the reality of the Holocaust.
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No, you just don't understand -- da Jooos still control Germany, because of the guilt engendered by something that never happened to begin with...
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Corsair 115 said:
JAnd yet, the scholarly research from that nation, the one with the greatest motivation to clear its name of involvement in the Holocaust and the most to gain from proving the Holocaust false, has and continues to firmly indicate the reality of the Holocaust.
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News flash - it is illegal to challenge the truth of the holohoax in Germany. In a recent trial of Ernst Zundel for just that offense, they not only jailed Zundel, they also jailed his lawyer, for defending him.
 
Saggy said:
News flash - it is illegal to challenge the truth of the holohoax in Germany. In a recent trial of Ernst Zundel for just that offense, they not only jailed Zundel, they also jailed his lawyer, for defending him.
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Tired old lies are tired old lies, and the people telling them are tired old liars.

Nobody was ever jailed for research or scholarship except in Nazi Germany. Zündel and his ilk get locked up for intentionally spreading lies that have been debunked a hundred times over, and his lawyer got locked up for acting the Nazi in the courtroom.

But then, I didn´t really expect you to be honest about that, either.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Other than misspelling "moral" as "morale," he has it correct. Atzmon is often quoted by deniers. Here's the Wiki page on him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Atzmon and here's a link the The Wandering Who? http://books.google.com/books?id=02...hat the Jewish historical narrative "&f=false
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Well, Well! If the Wikipedia article is anything to go by Atzmon is a jerk with a severe case of epater le bourgoisie. He is an attention seeking troll write large it seems.

I of course withdraw my previous comments about the comment quoted. Although Atzmon should be very concerned, maybe he isn't?, about the use his inflamatory and reckless and ignorant rhetoric
 
Clayton Moore said:
Where is Elie's tattoo?
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Better question: who cares?

Better and more relevant question: where are all those Hungarian Jews?

Also more relevant: what did Anne Frank do to deserve having to hide from the Nazi and eventually be deported by them to a camp in which the odds were that she would die?

Follow up question: are you ever going to get around to citig a *single* lie on the THHP site?
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I've just read a good portion of this thread for the first time and.....well, honestly I am completely flummoxed that there are people out there who think the holocaust is a hoax. I mean......how stupid can you be? i thought 9/11 truthers were dumb, but if the holocaust is a hoax WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PEOPLE? Did they evil gubment ship them all to Mars?
 
They can't be found so you can't PROVE they're dead. Or something. Them jooz is wiley n'stuff.
 
LogicFail said:
I've just read a good portion of this thread for the first time and.....well, honestly I am completely flummoxed that there are people out there who think the holocaust is a hoax. I mean......how stupid can you be? i thought 9/11 truthers were dumb, but if the holocaust is a hoax WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PEOPLE? Did they evil gubment ship them all to Mars?
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You've been bamboozled. The gas chambers never existed.

In their post war writings neither Ike nor de Gaulle nor Churchill mentioned gas chambers. Why? Because the gas chambers were a lie plain and simple.

When it mattered, for posterity, mum was the word.

Ike, mum was the word.
de Gaulle, mum was the word.
Churchill, mum was the word.

The Red Cross said during the war that there was no genocide going on in the German camps.
 
Clayton Moore said:
In their post war writings neither Ike nor de Gaulle nor Churchill mentioned gas chambers. Why?
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For the same reason they didn't mention a *lot* of things -- none of them were personally present at any of the camps which had gas chambers, and had other things about which to talk.

None of them mentioned the Battle of West Henan–North Hubei, either -- did that not occur?
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Clayton Moore said:
The Red Cross said during the war that there was no genocide going on in the German camps.
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A lie, one you have been corrected on in the past.

But lies don't matter when you have a political agenda to advance, hmmmn?
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