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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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DZ:

You know what they say about deniers; put two of them in a room and you'll get three different opinions.

Really? Who says this? Indeed, who is "they", you and your Nazi friends? No one that I know has ever said this. I hope you've not written that in some feeble attempt to portray you and your colleagues denying of the Holocaust as just a bit weird.

It's not, it's disreputable, it's dishonest, it's offensive and it's sordid.
 
Dogzilla said:
No echo? Are u kidding? Check the news archives of Al-Jazeera. Or Haaretz. Or the Jerusalem Post online. I think you'll hear some echo for some of them. You won't hear as much echo for some of the other places they went because those other places were a little bit more accommodating.
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Oh, you mean the people that actually survived the organized murder of their fellow coreligionists? I know where to find them. No worries.
But those are not the people YOU are missing.
 
LemmyCaution said:
I have no idea what this sentence means. Could you re-state what you believe it is that "we guys" think?
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When I said "It's you guys who think that without the gas chambers Nazi Germany didn't persecute the Jews." I meant that anybody who says there were no gas chambers is accused of denying the holocaust. Merely saying that the evidence for gas chambers is weak is enough to be labeled a holocaust denier.
 
Negative. Arno Meyer very clearly made that exact statement, and as far as I know, nobody's saying he's a denier for that reason.
 
Matthew Ellard said:
Incorrect. All holocaust deniers in this thread share an unsupported fantasy that the (approx) 800,000 Jewish victims of Treblinka II magically went somewhere else alive. Except Clayton and Saggy who offer no contribution.
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I personally use a minimum of 700,000 Jewish victims so there's some disunity right there.

Incorrect your "team" is unified in its denial and its refusal to research any evidence for your team's common position concerning how (approx) 800,000 Jewish victim travelled elsewhere.
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LGR has proposed a preliminary research project to determine if any further research is necessary. Those of us who work in the industry call this a "pre-test." If our pre-test determines that there's evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jewish victims having been buried in the ground at Treblinka, our "team" doesn't need to waste any time looking for them.

Incorrect. I am clear and provide evidence on many levels for my conventional historic views on the mass executions at Treblinka II. To argue for arguments sake would not be supported by my research and evidence I have presented.
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Then why do you demand evidence--witness names and exact quotes--that the last place hundreds of thousands of Jews were seen was at Treblinka?
 
Dogzilla said:
LGR has proposed a preliminary research project to determine if any further research is necessary. Those of us who work in the industry call this a "pre-test." If our pre-test determines that there's evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jewish victims having been buried in the ground at Treblinka, our "team" doesn't need to waste any time looking for them.
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And here is where you're either becoming painfully disingenuous or just not understanding.

When you have the other two camps in Aktion Reinhard (Sobibor and Belzec) having been subjected to digs, when you have dozens of eyewitnesses to the Reinhard camps having been extermination camps — these eyewitnesses having been both survivors and perpetrators (albeit extremely few in the case of Belzec, which itself says a lot), and when you have troublesome (for you) documentation tracking these people going to the Reinhard camps and then a dead end after that point, documentation-wise, then subjecting Treblinka to a dig is overkill.

And I suspect you know that. Unless you want to argue that the Nazis would set up two out three Aktion Reinhard camps for extermination but not the third.

We have ONE (count 'im, one!) guy who claims to have done a GPR study of Treblinka, and that guy won't publish his findings. Even LGR takes issue with that, apparently. Oh, did I mention he's on your side? Did I mention that actual experts on GPR say his images look like bodies buried under the surface?

Then why do you demand evidence--witness names and exact quotes--that the last place hundreds of thousands of Jews were seen was at Treblinka?
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Again, this is either failure to understand or failure to debate in good faith. He is asking for eyewitnesses who saw Jews arrive at Treblinka II and then go elsewhere.

You can't answer that because there are none. There are, however, several who saw Jews arrive at Treblinka II and die there.
 
Wroclaw said:
Negative. Arno Meyer very clearly made that exact statement, and as far as I know, nobody's saying he's a denier for that reason.
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Arno Mayer also said "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry." Pretty bright fellow.
 
Dogzilla said:
I meant that anybody who says there were no gas chambers is accused of denying the holocaust. Merely saying that the evidence for gas chambers is weak is enough to be labeled a holocaust denier.
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Saying there are no gas chambers is plenty sufficient to be a holohoax denier. If there were no gas chambers, than all the 'authorities' who say that millions were killed in gas chambers, all the lying 'eyewitnesses', all the lying 'academics', are identified as pathological liars the likes of which the world has never before seen. What more do you need?
 
Saggy said:
If there were no gas chambers, than all the 'authorities' who say that millions were killed in gas chambers, all the lying 'eyewitnesses', all the lying 'academics', are identified as pathological liars the likes of which the world has never before seen.
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Good point...All OF THOSE PEOPLE must be lying for the holocaust to be a hoax...

What more do you need?
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Since it is your claim, be my guest and prove them all liars.

..and if you "balk" at that, then shut the hell up.
 
I'm not sure why Saggy always tries to paint the other side as liars and "degenerates" (Do you actually know what that word means?). It always gives me the mental image of him foaming at the mouth. Which I frankly find not to be helping at all when he tries to convince us of many hundreds or thousands people lying and hoaxing on such a big scale. You may want to tone that down a bit.
Just for the record: no massgraves at Treblinka would certainly make a part of the conventional historiography of the Holocaust wrong. But does it follow that the whole narrative is wrong? Not really. It just opens up the question: "what happened to those people?" again. The thing it would prove would be that the remains of killed jews were not buried on site. Given the fact that there is evidence of the destruction of remains of Holocaust victims on other sites there is always the possibility that they were later dumped at some other place nearby.
So far there has been zero evidence presented for the deniers alternative narrative of "transit camps". Why would the documentary trail just happen to end here? Why not before? Why not after? The general lack of anything in that direction seems rather curious.
It seems rather implausible that neither the perpetrators nor the Russians made remarks in that direction. Did they suddenly conspire to cloak a lot less heinous happenings despite their enmity? I find that thought quite odd.
 
Dogzilla said:
LGR has proposed a preliminary research project to determine if any further research is necessary.
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Incorrect. We have had archaeological investigations at Treblinka already. Little Grey Rabbit has not mentioned these at all. Little Grey Rabbit has stated he doesn't understand why Richard Krege did not publish, which indicates Little Grey Rabbit is unaware of the errors (more probably falsifications) in Krege's work and thus is unable to take anything "further" than sending out comical invites to gain attention, as he has admitted above.

Dogzilla said:
Those of us who work in the industry call this a "pre-test." If our pre-test determines that there's evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jewish victims having been buried in the ground at Treblinka, our "team" doesn't need to waste any time looking for them.
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The bodies were dug up again and cremated as part of Sonderaktion 1005. Do you work in the industry of denial or the industry of simply not reading basic history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_1005
 
little grey rabbit said:
Ah yes, Mr Caution, a lifeterm in service of the oppressed and the underprivileged has allowed your keen eye to spot another intolerable crime against humanity.

I am indeed cruelly baiting people - all of whom with incomes many times my own - by proposing to fund with my working-class pay packet the most basic study imaginable of site where it is proposed 800 000 people perished. What sadistic taunting to offer to fly people to a site, hire GPR equipment, have an expert collect the necessary data and then allow these academics first dibs on any academic papers they would like to publish on the data.

What horrific mockery, oh why, oh why do the heavens not darken? Surely an extended bout on the race track burning off diesel (mind you don't asphyxiate) must be the only way you can cope with such trauma.
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I take this lunatic reply to mean that you do not possess the requisite skills and are in fact playing the Donald Trump character. Bravo for you. You, like the Donald, certainly seem impressed with yourself.
 
Saggy said:
Arno Mayer also said "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry." Pretty bright fellow.
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Incorrect yet again.

Mayer actually was quoting a Nazi party spokesperson.

Furthermore, any person actually believing that — especially once Trotsky, Kamenev, Zinoviev, and virtually every other powerful Jew in the Soviet Union had been purged — is pretty much the biggest idiot in the world.

Just sayin'.

You should, like, read books once in a while, instead of parroting the anti-Semitic crap ripped out of context.
 
LemmyCaution said:
I take this lunatic reply to mean that you do not possess the requisite skills and are in fact playing the Donald Trump character. Bravo for you. You, like the Donald, certainly seem impressed with yourself.
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You of all people recognize that this is boilerplate Bunny. Having been shown to be what he is by his betters, he engaged in outright baiting, seeking to either anger his opponents for his jollies or to get himself booted in order to claim "censorship."
 
R.A.F. said:
Good point...All OF THOSE PEOPLE must be lying for the holocaust to be a hoax...

Since it is your claim, be my guest and prove them all liars.

..and if you "balk" at that, then shut the hell up.
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Balk? Why it's easy. This is the point, somebody is lying, either the holohoax 'authorities', or the revisionists, and it's completely easy to tell which one it is. The holohoax authorities say that Krema 1 morgue room, which has typical wooden office doors, unsealed, one with a large plate glass window, was used by the Nazis as a homicidal gas chamber. They are lying, it is obvious. See?

Of course there are thousands of lies, each one perfectly absurd, and told by the most 'respected' hoax 'witnesses', Wiesel, Wiernik, Bomba, et. al. But it only takes one real whopper right at the heart of the hoax, and that's the Auschwitz hoax gas chamber.
 
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Saggy said:
LOL. Prove he didn't say it.
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So, in other words, you have reasons not to want to support your claim. What are those reasons? To put it bluntly, I think you are misrepresenting, and I would wager most people reading and posting in this thread do, too. Your making a game of a request to show your source doesn't help convince anyone that you are representing Meyer faithfully. You aren't representing Meyer faithfully, are you?
 
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