Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[WhenDanSaysJump]

The holocaust isn't a single unified event that can be proven by evidence for one tiny part of it.

...but strangely, deniers seem to think they can disprove it by highlighting one tiny part of it.

 

[Moss]

Sometimes I think the only thing holocaust deniers achieve is getting people to educate themselves about the holocaust and nazism. Oh, and getting each and every single detail documented.

 

[Saggy]

Sometimes I think the only thing holocaust deniers achieve is getting people to educate themselves about the holocaust and nazism.

That's exactly what we're trying to do. The ADL and other Zionist organizations are fighting it tooth and nail, and prevailing in many countries to the extent that questioning the holohoax is against the law. They are prevailing in the US too, but there are cracks in the facade, and they're getting bigger.

 

[Moss]

That's exactly what we're trying to do. The ADL and other Zionist organizations are fighting it tooth and nail, and prevailing in many countries to the extent that questioning the holohoax is against the law. They are prevailing in the US too, but there are cracks in the facade, and they're getting bigger.

The holohoax? Is that what the David Irving and IHR propaganda campaign calls itself now? Well, I do understand that they fail miserably in their attempt to whitewash the nazis, but I don't think the ADL is fighting that. Seems to me their blatant and rather obvious lies are getting them nowhere. I think they will soon flicker out.

 

[Saggy]

The holohoax?

The holohoax is the collection of degenerate lies the Jews have told in order to extort trillions from the west and ethnically cleanse Palestine while the world casts a blind eye, it will go down in history as the greatest infamy of all time.

 

[Moss]

The holohoax is the collection of degenerate lies the Jews have told in order to extort trillions from the west and ethnically cleanse Palestine while the world casts a blind eye, it will go down in history as the greatest infamy of all time.

So the holohoax is some mythical happening in a parallel dimension? Good to know. Though I am not quite sure how we would know about that. Must be one of those divine vision thingies. Never put much faith in those.
Are you able to tell us where the Jews from the extermination camps went?

 

[little grey rabbit]

And thank you for treating the mass murder of my family so blithely. It says quite a bit about your character.

Mr Swidler. I do unskilled, low paid work and I have long bouts of unemployment, yet despite of that I have scrimped and saved so I have enough to fly people who earn many times what I do, pay for a technical specialist whose hourly rate will be many times mine and hire equipment simply in order to obtain raw data well annotated of the subsurface of Treblinka that anyone would be able to download off the internet and form their own conclusions.

How is that treating the alleged murder of the Jews with anything other than the greatest of respect?

So get off your bottom, Mr Swidler, assure Dr Terry that his career will not be harmed in anyway by participation in such an exciting project and lets get this done by Christmas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z8LmMtScH3g

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You have attempted to avoid this question. I ask again. List the names of the persons who last saw the victims at Treblinka II and quote them exactly as to what they saw.

OK, so you don't believe and you can't prove that a whole bunch of Jews were sent to Treblinka and that's the last anybody has heard of them? The lack of a trail for what happened to the Jews after they were sent to Treblinka is the closest thing you guys have for anything you could call evidence that something untoward happened to them. So if you don't think they were even sent to Treblinka, why do you insist they were murdered there?

You have made a number of errors. We have a large number of eyewitnesses who last saw the Jewish victims at Treblinka II.

SS-Hauptsturmführer Franz Stangl "it was always a huge mass… they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips" & "I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses.

Treblinka station-master Franciszek Zabecki"Each transport was divided into sections of twenty wagons, and was pushed by a locomotive"

Oscar Strawczynski The place is packed with people. On one side are women with small children, on the opposite side, men, forced to kneel. In the middle there are SS –men, Ukrainians with weapons in their hands,


Would you like me to list some more?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Mr Swidler. I do unskilled, low paid work and I have long bouts of unemployment, yet despite of that I have scrimped and saved so I have enough to fly people who earn many times what I do, pay for a technical specialist whose hourly rate will be many times mine and hire equipment simply in order to obtain raw data well annotated of the subsurface of Treblinka that anyone would be able to download off the internet and form their own conclusions.

But Little Grey Rabbit, why are you unable to ask your fellow holocaust denier and and fellow Australian, Richard Krege, for his GPR raw data and soil samples. Are you suggesting this particular holocaust denier is a charlatan but you are not? No? Would this shared research between fellow holocaust deniers, not save your small savings from your very unskilled labour? Please explain your logic for not doing this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Krege

 

[little grey rabbit]

But Little Grey Rabbit, why are you unable to ask your fellow holocaust denier and and fellow Australian, Richard Krege, for his GPR raw data and soil samples. Are you suggesting this particular holocaust denier is a charlatan but you are not? No? Would this shared research between fellow holocaust deniers, not save your small savings from your very unskilled labour? Please explain your logic for not doing this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Krege

Well I have asked him and he will not answer, nor will he publish it. I can't speculate the reasons for this. Nevertheless there are some reasons why repeating the study would be worthwhile. Krege was working illicitly and we don't know to what extent he documented his raw data.

I am hoping to work openly, with a professional and with people of various ideological viewpoints and produce the following simple, non-invasive data: a list of lines on a map covering all suggested mass grave areas and areas agreed to contain mass graves and match each of these lines to file of raw GPR data.

Anyone will be free to download this data, secure in the knowledge that the provenance of this data is beyond any doubt, and draw their own conclusions.

BTW, my work is not "very unskilled" as you so graciously term it, just not particularly skilled.

 

[little grey rabbit]

You have made a number of errors. We have a large number of eyewitnesses who last saw the Jewish victims at Treblinka II.

SS-Hauptsturmführer Franz Stangl "it was always a huge mass… they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips" & "I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses.

Treblinka station-master Franciszek Zabecki"Each transport was divided into sections of twenty wagons, and was pushed by a locomotive"

Oscar Strawczynski The place is packed with people. On one side are women with small children, on the opposite side, men, forced to kneel. In the middle there are SS –men, Ukrainians with weapons in their hands,


Would you like me to list some more?

You forgot Yanek Wiernik

Suddenly, I saw a live, nude woman in the distance. She was entirely nude; she was young and beautiful, but there was a demented look in her eyes. She was saying something to us, but we could not understand what she was saying and could not help her. She had wrapped herself in a bed sheet under which she was hiding a little child, and she was frantically looking for shelter. Just then one of the Germans saw her, ordered her to get into a ditch and shot her and the child. It was the first shooting I had ever seen.

I looked at the ditches around me. The dimensions of each ditch were 50 by 25 by 10 meters. I stood over one of them, intending to throw in one of the corpses, when suddenly a German came up from behind and wanted to shoot me. I turned around and asked him what I had done, whereupon he told me that I had attempted to climb into the ditch without having been told to do so. I explained that I had only wanted to throw the corpse in.

Next to nearly every one of us there was either a German with a whip or a Ukrainian armed with a gun. As we worked, we would be hit over the head. Some distance away there was an excavator, which dug out the ditches.

These should be a doddle to find. Are you interested in joining Dr Terry, Mr Swidler and me? I won't pay your airfare but you are more than welcome to tag along

 

[CTB]

I won't pay your airfare but you are more than welcome to tag along

LGR,

cc: holocaust deniers

One day you might visit Europe.

Join your neo-Nazi pals and the denial of an exceptionally well documented crime against humanity. It's a small group, but they do exist and they really, really do hate anybody who is not from their town. ( Unfortunately there's lots of towns in Europe, so lots of xenophobes. ) A favoured recruiting tactic is to take ill-educated people and tell them everything about life is a lie.

The scale of the Nazi final solution was not realised until the shooting and bombing was done. The carve-up of Europe along the lines of the iron curtain seems to enable you to think the holocaust was just a fiction. Your nit-picking over the testimony of those involved in the senseless murder of fellow human beings shows you as a lazy researcher, grasping at ever diminishing straws ie millions died, but they weren't all gassed ergo it's all a fabrication.

Maybe you'll grow to be an old man/woman/rabbit and maintain your beliefs. If so then you deserve a little bit of sympathy and pity because you'll die alone and misunderstood. I'll keep reading your nonsense because I'm intrigued to know just who, or what, that it is you hate so much.

It's not your fault you have a pathological desire to win an argument. You should just have picked a less obviously false standpoint from which to launch your considerable anti-intellect. In this instance your denial is poison.

So yeah, travel Europe and learn. WW2 is not some dry, historical exercise that will yield to fantastical revisionism.

 

[Dogzilla]

Dogzilla, we know where the victims of the Holocaust went, because it's been well-documented. What we don't know is what you'll try to pass off as evidence that they went somewhere else, because you've yet to present any.

I have already told you where to look for holocaust era Jews. If you can't find any of them there, look harder. They're there. But you better hurry because they're not going to be around forever. Other than that I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Well I have asked him and he will not answer, nor will he publish it. I can't speculate the reasons for this.

I can. There is nothing to publish as he failed to perform controls, analyse raw data or keep the soil samples and so on. I assume as a holocaust denier you are discarding fellow holocaust denier, Richard Krege's work. Fair enough.

Krege was working illicitly and we don't know to what extent he documented his raw data.

I see....so under what academic institution will you apply to the Treblinka Trust to launch your investigation? Would it be "Application from CODOH signed by LG Rabbit" Have you prepared a draft of your application for our perusal?

I am hoping to work openly, with a professional and....

I see. Have you considered that academic institutions may already be satisfied with the documentary, material, eyewitness and other supporting data and that you may need to provide some reason, say, a paper as part of your academic studies to move this ahead? How far are you along in this particular activity in Victoria?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You forgot Yanek Wiernik

I see.....so you agree there are eyewitnesses to the last know location of Jewish victims at Treblinka II. Can you exchange notes, via PMs, with your fellow holocaust denier Dogzilla. Your team seems to have different views on this matter.

 

[little grey rabbit]

LGR,

cc: holocaust deniers

One day you might visit Europe.

Join your neo-Nazi pals and the denial of an exceptionally well documented crime against humanity. It's a small group, but they do exist and they really, really do hate anybody who is not from their town. ( Unfortunately there's lots of towns in Europe, so lots of xenophobes. ) A favoured recruiting tactic is to take ill-educated people and tell them everything about life is a lie.

The scale of the Nazi final solution was not realised until the shooting and bombing was done. The carve-up of Europe along the lines of the iron curtain seems to enable you to think the holocaust was just a fiction. Your nit-picking over the testimony of those involved in the senseless murder of fellow human beings shows you as a lazy researcher, grasping at ever diminishing straws ie millions died, but they weren't all gassed ergo it's all a fabrication.

Maybe you'll grow to be an old man/woman/rabbit and maintain your beliefs. If so then you deserve a little bit of sympathy and pity because you'll die alone and misunderstood. I'll keep reading your nonsense because I'm intrigued to know just who, or what, that it is you hate so much.

It's not your fault you have a pathological desire to win an argument. You should just have picked a less obviously false standpoint from which to launch your considerable anti-intellect. In this instance your denial is poison.

So yeah, travel Europe and learn. WW2 is not some dry, historical exercise that will yield to fantastical revisionism.

Actually my dream is one day to visit the Britain. Some years ago I went to Medellin which is noted for having many public statues of fat people
http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-ph...ortelo-statues---the-fat-people.jpg/tpod.html

Since then I have always yearned to see the Britain where the real life models for these statues can be seen walking through the streets and shopping malls.

PS. I might just add I have already visited Treblinka once and Sachsenhausen, Dachau, Buchenwald, Auschwitz and Majdanek numerous times. Fate has brought me to Weimar on a number of times and since you can quickly exhaust the things to see there generally at least on one weekend I will take the bus to Buchenwald again.

 

[little grey rabbit]

I see.....so you agree there are eyewitnesses to the last know location of Jewish victims at Treblinka II. Can you exchange notes, via PMs, with your fellow holocaust denier Dogzilla. Your team seems to have different views on this matter.

Well, I am not a team with Dogzilla but if he is willing to pay his own airfare he is more than welcome to join Dr Terry, Mr Swidler and me at Treblinka - just like yourself.

There are certainly eyewitness accounts, but then there are eye-witness accounts of being anally probed by aliens. We want to determine how accurate these accounts are by providing publicly accessible scientific raw data.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Concerning Dogzilla's claim "They're There"

I have already told you where to look for holocaust era Jews. If you can't find any of them there, look harder. They're there. But you better hurry because they're not going to be around forever. Other than that I don't know what to tell you.

Are you basing your claim on Carlo Mattogno and Jurgen Graf's "in depth" paper for holocaust deniers on Treblinka?

Let us read the conclusion of this paper together.....

Above all, it is entirely unclear where the Jews deported to Treblinka ultimately wound up
But you appear to have new evidence.....What is it? Are you in contact with Jurgen Graf who has taken refuge in Iran and thus have new information?

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/11.html

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Well, I am not a team with Dogzilla but if he is willing to pay his own airfare he is more than welcome to join Dr Terry, Mr Swidler and me at Treblinka - just like yourself.

No thank you. I am satisfied with the existing evidence and wonder under what academic institution or for what further research reasons you will apply to the Treblinka Trust to do as you say. Do you have a paper we could read from your academic studies that explains this in detail?

There are certainly eyewitness accounts, but then there are eye-witness accounts of being anally probed by aliens. We want to determine how accurate these accounts are by providing publicly accessible scientific raw data.

I see.... so on the balance of your academic studies, comparing the material, eyewitness, confessions and documentary evidence of alien anal probes to Treblinka II's evidence, you feel Treblinka II needs more attention as you are not satisfied? How interesting. I assume you have satisfied yourself concerning anal probing and consider the matter of no further interest?

Do you have an academic paper we can peruse concerning Treblinka II and the need for further investigations?

 

[Dogzilla]

Are you done with your straw men? Why are you unable to provide anything about those people? Look above: If those people went anywhere, there would have been some echo. There is none.
You can try to evade and spin and dissemble all you want: Your claim is those people survived and went someplace else. So the only correct questions to follow are those: When? Where? How?
You are unable to answer a single of those. "NO U!" as you have provided for the last few replies only weakens your position further.

No echo? Are u kidding? Check the news archives of Al-Jazeera. Or Haaretz. Or the Jerusalem Post online. I think you'll hear some echo for some of them. You won't hear as much echo for some of the other places they went because those other places were a little bit more accommodating.