Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[TSR]

The K-3 manual is for softening them up, getting them ready for the explicit hoax programming to begin in grade 4.

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Ah, so not only from your own sources this time, but from your own mouth your claim that the Holocaust is "forced down the throat" of kindergartners is documented to be a degenerate lie.

Which makes you different from how you claim Jews to be ... how?
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It is truly a degenerate book, sick ... here is a sample question .... "What does prejudice smell like?". This book should be burned.

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What, exactly, is "sick" about that question?

And one notes that opinions other than Sags deserve to be censored.

Which makes you differ from how you claim Jews to be ... how?
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The phony goal is to teach the students 'tolerance'.

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Phony in what way?

Or is this, again, a degenerate lie on your part?
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The absurdity of having the Zionists, for 3000 years the most intolerant people on the planet, hating everyone and being hated in return, teach children 'tolerance' is truly sickening.

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The only hate being shown here is yours -- a hate so strong you cannot even bear to name the object of that hate.

Free hint: Zionism hasn't existed for 3000 years. Less than 300, by most accounts.

Which means this is another degenerate lie.
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This is from a review of Israel Shahak's 'Three Thousand Years of Jewish History', must reading incidentally ....

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A well documented degenerate liar, incidentally.

No wonder you admire zir work.
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When the Roman historian Tacitus pointed out 19 centuries ago that the Jews are unique among the races of man in their intense hatred and contempt for all races but their own, he was only repeating what many other scholars had discovered before him.

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And you can actually *cite* Tacitus on this subject, rather than mindlessly repeating what some anonymous hater has told you Tacitus said?

No?



So this is another of your degenerate lies, hmmmn?
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For the next 1,900 years other investigators came to similar conclusions, either from a study of the Jews' religious writings or from a study of the Jews' behavior toward non-Jews.

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And these other investigations can be read, where?


They can't be, because you are once again mindlessly parroting someone elses' degenerate lies?

Nick, please re-post this, since Sags has recently developed a blind spot in terms of my posts...
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[Multivac]

The above statement is beyond stupid.

Why is it stupid? This is exactly what happened.

 

[Border Reiver]

And, the US will actively act to deport any foreigner that effectively questions the holohoax, witness Ernst Zundel, and the two English chaps who are now in prison in England for denying the hoax. Zundel was deported from the US to Canada where he was prosecuted by denying the holohoax.

No. Ernst Zundel was prosecuted in 1987 for propagating hate speech and again after the Americans deported him here for being a security risk due to his apparent position within the white supremacist movement.

Check out the decisions at www.canlii.org

 

[LemmyCaution]

The K-3 manual is for softening them up, getting them ready for the explicit hoax programming to begin in grade 4. It is truly a degenerate book, sick ... here is a sample question .... "What does prejudice smell like?". This book should be burned.

The phony goal is to teach the students 'tolerance'. The absurdity of having the Zionists, for 3000 years the most intolerant people on the planet, hating everyone and being hated in return, teach children 'tolerance' is truly sickening.

This is from a review of Israel Shahak's 'Three Thousand Years of Jewish History', must reading incidentally ....

When the Roman historian Tacitus pointed out 19 centuries ago that the Jews are unique among the races of man in their intense hatred and contempt for all races but their own, he was only repeating what many other scholars had discovered before him. For the next 1,900 years other investigators came to similar conclusions, either from a study of the Jews' religious writings or from a study of the Jews' behavior toward non-Jews.

1st, the "Zionists" haven't been around anything like 3000 years. You seem to have mixed up Zionists and Jews. 2nd, the "smell" question is stupid but not degnerate or sickening. 3rd, inclusion of the Holocaust in a standard curriculum is not on account of Zionists but necessary to do justice to world history - every bit as important as a topic on the slave trade, the French Revolution, Stalinism, the Cold War, Gandhi, or the American civil rights movement. 4th, Shahak's views on the history of the Jews are his views and irrelevant to FL's primary school curriculum, which does not, alas, include instruction in intolerance and hateful depictions of the Jews, as you seem to call for. 5th, it seems that you would follow your heroes in burning books you don't agree with; that "tolerance" thing, not to mention curiosity, would rather lead to people to seeking such things out. Apparently you don't have confidence in your own views in that you want to suppress what you find disagreeable. Before you start in on the anti-incitement laws in some countries, be aware of the aim of such laws and that many of us who disagree with you also oppose such laws and favor free inquiry and discussion of even repulsive ideas like denial.

 

[uke2se]

It's amusing watching Saggy try to justify his hatred of Jews by going "but they hate me moar!"

 

[abaddon]

1st, the "Zionists" haven't been around anything like 3000 years. You seem to have mixed up Zionists and Jews.

Clearly. The hoax "protocols" are only an instant away from being mentioned.

2nd, the "smell" question is stupid but not degnerate or sickening.

Ah, the "smelly jews". An oft occurring accusation. Sometimes occurs with Indians, Chinese, even the English. Never has any merit. As one who once worked in an airport, the fug that comes from a long distance flight is simply the pong of confined people, race not required.

3rd, inclusion of the Holocaust in a standard curriculum is not on account of Zionists but as necessary to do justice to world history as a topic on the slave trade, the French Revolution, Stalinism, the Cold War, Gandhi, or the American civil rights movement.

Sure, but some bits of history are inserted by the "Zionists" while they live in a tiny besieged country, wielding unbeatable malevolence over the entire world, don't you know.

4th, Shahak's views on the history of the Jews are his views and irrelevant to FL's primary school curriculum, which does not, alas, include instruction in intolerance and hateful depictions of the Jews, as you seem to call for. 5th, it seems that you would follow your heroes in burning books you don't agree with; that "tolerance" thing, not to mention curiosity, would rather urge people to seek such things out. Apparently you don't have confidence in your own views in that you want to suppress what you find disagreeable. Before you start in on the anti-incitement laws in some countries, be aware of the aim of such laws and that many of us who disagree with you also oppose such laws and favor free inquiry and discussion of even repulsive ideas like denial.

And at last we come to the crux. Saggy believes the world consists of only america, while ignoring the fact that it is a fairly small part of the world. Not to mention the world's population.

 

[Wroclaw]

No. Ernst Zundel was prosecuted in 1987 for propagating hate speech and again after the Americans deported him here for being a security risk due to his apparent position within the white supremacist movement.

Check out the decisions at www.canlii.org

Indeed, there is some informative material at that Web site, among it this link:

http://canlii.ca/en/ca/fct/doc/2005/2005fc295/2005fc295.html

in which Zundel's links to the terrorist far right are detailed.

Zundel could have stayed in Canada and he'd probably still be there today. He screwed the pooch by entering into a sham marriage and thinking he could live here. Then he failed to keep up with his paperwork and got deported. Having vacated the Canadian equivalent of a green card, he was deported to his native country, where he still held citizenship, and the rest is history. Why someone with demonstrable links to extremists should be expected to be welcomed as an immigrant to any other country is beyond me.

Zundel crucified himself in the end. I have no sympathy for him.

 

[BaaBaa]

This book should be burned.

Another page from your hero's manual?

 

[WhenDanSaysJump]

Forgive me for not trawling through all 164+ pages, but one thing that's always proven telling for me is that there's not a single "revisionist" who takes the line of "There was no mass extermination of Jews... and that's GREAT! These people are still alive! We need to put them in touch with their relatives and then have ourselves a celebration!"

I wonder why that is?

 

[Nick Terry]

please feel free to spam this the next time a troglodyte witters on about Holocaust denial being universally or generally illegal.

Countries that have no laws against Holocaust denial, genocide denial, or the denial of communist crimes

USA
Canada[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
United Kingdom
Ireland
Italy
Spain[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT]
Netherlands
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Serbia
Croatia
Slovenia
Bulgaria
Malta
Greece
Iceland
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Denmark
Latvia
Estonia
Lithuania
Belarus
Ukraine
Russia
Turkey
Japan
China
India
Brazil
Argentina
Chile
Ecuador
Paraguay
Mexico
et cetera

Countries with laws against genocide denial or denial of communist crimes
Hungary (law criminalises denial of Nazi and Soviet crimes)
Poland (law criminalises denial of Nazi and Soviet crimes)
Czech Republic (law criminalises denial of Nazi and Soviet crimes)
Portugal (denial of genocide, no mention of Holocaust in law)
France (denial of Armenian genocide and of Holocaust illegal)
Switzerland (denial of genocide or crimes against humanity, no mention of Holocaust in law)
Liechtenstein (denial of genocide or crimes against humanity, no mention of Holocaust)
Luxembourg (denial of crimes against humanity, no mention of Holocaust)

Countries with anti-racism laws incorporating clauses against Holocaust denial or anti-Nazi laws
Romania
Germany
Belgium
Austria
Israel

[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] ‘False news’ law applied against Ernst Zundel over two decades ago struck down as unconstitutional

[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] genocide denial law declared unconstitutional in 2007

 

[TSR]

Why someone with demonstrable links to extremists should be expected to be welcomed as an immigrant to any other country is beyond me.

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The thing is, he would have been, if not welcomed, allowed to maintain his status as what they call "Landed Immigrant" had he merely *not* tried to seek asylum from the US and Germany as a political prisoner.

Which he was and is not -- he violated US immigration law in more than one way none of which had anything to do with his politics, not least was not attending his hearings. At *best* he could try to claim incompetent representation and request a re-hearing on that basis.

But even should a judge be so inclined, that re-hearing would not be successful for him given his lies upon entering the country (Dominica, anyone? Mail fraud? Deliberately and repeatedly breaking the laws of the only nation of which he has ever been a citizen? Hiring out the premeditated vandalism of public and private property?)

INS, now DHS, don't take kindly to concealing your crimes when you ask to enter under *any* status.
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[TSR]

[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] ‘False news’ law applied against Ernst Zundel over two decades ago struck down as unconstitutional

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And it is worth noting that the constitutional issue only became a factor *after* Unka Ernie failed to convince two separate juries that he thought the crap he was spewing was the truth (an absolute defense against the charges brought).

So two courts found that he was knowingly dishonest, and only *then* was the defense floated that lying isn't against the Canadian constitution.

This constitutional decision is yet more evidence in favour of Sags' claim that the Jews control everything. Yep, they used all of their degenerate nefarious influence to cause Zundel to act in the ways that he did, all to have an archaic law declared unconstitutional.

Indeed, the Zionists control everything. Except those things that they don't.

Which group of things includes ... well, pretty much everything.
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[Dogzilla]

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If the cat has kittens in the oven, it does not reflect a double standard to point out that they are not scones. Nor does calling them pumpkin pie change either their feline nature, nor the fact that pumpkins do not tend to purr when you gently rub their tummies.
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There are false analogies and there are bad analogies. But this one is just weird.

 

[Dogzilla]

Ah, the usual crybaby excuse about research. It might have more weight were there more than 3 people on the entire revisionist scene who have even tried to do anything like proper research (eg in libraries). Otherwise it's just another pathetic excuse.

If you don't let us into the archives you can't really criticize us for not visiting the archives.

So, let me get this straight. You propose banning discussion of the Holocaust by artists etc in the United States, where there isn't a hate speech law anyhow. And enforcing a similar law across the rest of the globe, where there aren't anti-denial laws.

No. You weren't listening. I said that is how it could be done--redefine it as hate speech and let existing laws against hate speech take over. Nobody said nothing about the United States.

 

[Dogzilla]

Forgive me for not trawling through all 164+ pages, but one thing that's always proven telling for me is that there's not a single "revisionist" who takes the line of "There was no mass extermination of Jews... and that's GREAT! These people are still alive! We need to put them in touch with their relatives and then have ourselves a celebration!"

I wonder why that is?

If they want to get in touch with their relatives and celebrate that's their business. They can organize their own family reunions.

BTW, you're making the erroneous assumption that the only possible fate for Jews living is Europe during WWII is either 1) surviving the war or 2) being exterminated. That's not true. It's true that Jews either survived the war or they did not survive the war. But there are many different ways to not survive the war besides being exterminated.

 

[Saggy]

please feel free to spam this the next time a troglodyte witters on about Holocaust denial being universally or generally illegal.

Whenever a shabbos goy posts such dishonest info as in the post quoted above, don't fail to point out that holocaust denial is illegal in all EU countries.

 

[TSR]

There are false analogies and there are bad analogies. But this one is just weird.

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Your inability to understand it does not make it weird, it merely documents a fundamental (intentional, IMO) failure on your part to understand how it applies to your posts attempting to support your crap about double standards.

Should someone not pretending to ignorance because zie knows it trashes zir arguments ask, I'll be more than happy to explain why this analogy, silliness and all, is entirely appropriate.

But I am confident none such has failed to grasp my point.
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[TSR]

Whenever a shabbos goy posts such dishonest info as in the post quoted above, don't fail to point out that holocaust denial is illegal in all EU countries.

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Unless you can document in which particular(s) the list Nick posted is "dishonest", when you do attempt to distract by 'pointing this out' it will be responded to with an observation regarding your inability or unwillingness to do so.
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[Nick Terry]

If you don't let us into the archives you can't really criticize us for not visiting the archives.

Generally, before you visit archives, you go to the library. Deniers don't visit those, either, which is why morons like Juergen Graf have to imagine the contents of books they haven't read in order to handwave them away.

Course, the odd few deniers have visited those supposedly hard-to-reach archives in Germany and Poland. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out how they did this. No one much objects to pseudonyms, as long as they don't multiply by two dozen as with Germar 'Many Names' Rudolf.

No. You weren't listening. I said that is how it could be done--redefine it as hate speech and let existing laws against hate speech take over. Nobody said nothing about the United States.

Uh..... so there I was posting about the NEW YORK TIMES and now you're claiming that 'nobody said nothing about the United States'? Are you brain-damaged or just wilfully obtuse?

There isn't any kind of hate speech law in the US, none whatsoever, so the spurious 'reciprocity' you dredged up out of your tedious bag of tricks is complete nonsense. It'd also be complete nonsense for a country like Britain. Clearly, you have zero understanding of how the incitement to racial hatred law works.

And it'd also be nonsense in Germany. You know, it's pretty obvious to most sane people that one lot of Germans today can despise another lot of Germans in the past and it's politics, not a matter of ethnic or racial or national hatreds or self-hatreds. No matter how bores like you try to spin it.

In fact, it'd be nonsense everywhere, and you know it, but oh no, you're such a bore that you think your threadbare 'double standard' bollocks can withstand yet another dreary repetition.

 

[Nick Terry]

Whenever a shabbos goy posts such dishonest info as in the post quoted above, don't fail to point out that holocaust denial is illegal in all EU countries.

At which point, the dumb as dishwater troglodyte demonstrates only their ignorance of how the EU works.

Links to the national statute books and penal codes, or bust, Saggy.