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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Matthew Ellard said:
Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch, Randolf Hearst, Steve Forbes, Sumner Redstone, Oprah Winfrey, Conrad Black and Steve Jobs are wondering what you are talking about....so are we.
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Just for the record, Sumner Redstone is a Red Sea pedestrian.
 
Yes because I am four hundred years old...

Ever wonder whether these assclowns believe that Holocaust is all over the mass media because they are actively seeking it out?
 
uke2se said:
Florida isn't the world, and your original assertion was that children had been browbeaten with the holocaust since the war. That was obviously a lie. Your current lie is making a general assertion that might only be true in some cases.

I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Possibly you are so caught up in your lie that the only way for you to get out of it is to get us to accept it as true. As you probably understand by now, that ain't going to happen. It's just another lie from you as far as the rational world is concerned.
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It's amazing that people have the hutzpah to say the Holohoax industry doesn't shove Shoah Business down American throats 24/7.
 
Clayton Moore said:
It's amazing that people have the hutzpah to say the Holohoax industry doesn't shove Shoah Business down American throats 24/7.
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The New York Times has run 56 articles mentioning the word 'Holocaust' in the past 30 days. That's less than two a day, and there was only one story which made the front page. Most appear in the Arts and Books sections (29 results, i.e. already more than 50%), followed by Movies and Theater (11 stories) - 40 in all.








I invite you and Saggy to show that the "Holocaust industry" (which we will assume means a museum or organisation like USHMM) had anything to do with more than 3 of those stories in the past month.

Just in case you're confused, novelists, film directors, playwrights, theatres, art galleries and whatnot are not part of any kind of 'Holocaust Industry'. And the arts section doesn't tend to run on the frontpage, which is the only way that a newspaper could 'shove' something down anyone's throat.

The NYT, in case you haven't realised, should have an above average number of stories on the Holocaust because there is a not insignificant local constituency for the subject. You're welcome to show how whichever Gannett press title you read in your backwater hick town carries even more stories, but somehow I don't think you're going to manage to do that.
 
Clayton Moore said:
It's amazing that people have the hutzpah to say the Holohoax industry doesn't shove Shoah Business down American throats 24/7.
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Maybe if you'd stop going around actively hating Jews all day long they wouldn't have such a hold on you. Nobody is having anything shoved down their throats. We all swallow what we want. In your case, it seems to be mostly crap.
 
If we follow denier logic, then what they seem to be proposing is censorship.

What they seem to want is state intervention dictating the permissible choices for creative expression as well as what is permissible for academics and thinkers. No novelist, artist, sculptor, film-maker, playwright or musician would ever be allowed to make a piece of art which referred to the Holocaust in any way, lest they offend a tiny handful of troglodytes.

For fear of Clayton Moore and Saggy, no historian, philosopher, sociologist or any other academic would be allowed to write about or teach the Holocaust, and no publisher or university press would be permitted to publish anything on the subject.

All op-ed columnists would be banned from referring to the Holocaust, along presumably with other traumatic historical events, on pain of imprisonment. Newspapers would not be permitted to run any stories about something happening even in another country, even if the press in another country was covering the same story. Obituaries couldn't mention whether someone had survived Auschwitz or not, one presumes.

Heck, even sports players who make crass remarks like this

Players like Samoa center Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu, who caused an uproar by likening the short turnarounds to the Holocaust and apartheid,
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would presumably have to be punished, for daring to draw attention to the now taboo topic. I mean, at the moment, people shout at them for being stupid, but what Clayton and Saggy seem to want would necessitate the passage of laws banning even the merest mention of the H-word.
 
Saggy said:
Fortunately anyone remotely interested in the subject knows that the Belsen pics have been shown over and over, ad infinitum, as on the Oprah show, so no convincing on my part is needed.
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So you claim that the Belsen pics have been published "over and over ad infinitum" and can cite only one daytime TV talk show?

You'll need to do better than than to convince skeptics, I'm afraid, Saggy.

Saying it's so don't make it so.
 
Saggy said:
I'm beginning think NT is one of us. What say you, Nick?
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I'm beginning to think that Saggy can't count or read. What say you? The references explained by Nick are neither 24/7 shoving of the Holocaust down people's throats nor a concerted, coordinated effort with any particular aim. It seems that Nick is right when he conjectured that random mentions of the Holocaust will bring out the Revisionist Thought Police.
 
Nick Terry said:
If we follow denier logic, then what they seem to be proposing is censorship.

What they seem to want is state intervention dictating the permissible choices for creative expression as well as what is permissible for academics and thinkers. No novelist, artist, sculptor, film-maker, playwright or musician would ever be allowed to make a piece of art which referred to the Holocaust in any way, lest they offend a tiny handful of troglodytes.

For fear of Clayton Moore and Saggy, no historian, philosopher, sociologist or any other academic would be allowed to write about or teach the Holocaust, and no publisher or university press would be permitted to publish anything on the subject.

All op-ed columnists would be banned from referring to the Holocaust, along presumably with other traumatic historical events, on pain of imprisonment. Newspapers would not be permitted to run any stories about something happening even in another country, even if the press in another country was covering the same story. Obituaries couldn't mention whether someone had survived Auschwitz or not, one presumes.

Heck, even sports players who make crass remarks like this



would presumably have to be punished, for daring to draw attention to the now taboo topic. I mean, at the moment, people shout at them for being stupid, but what Clayton and Saggy seem to want would necessitate the passage of laws banning even the merest mention of the H-word.
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Neo-Nazis wanting censorship? What were the odds?
 
abaddon said:
Do you not realise that is exactly what Wroclaw is saying? That the Holocaust was specifically not beaten into the poor children by teacher demagogues?

Random prejudicial boat, meet torpedo.
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Yes I do realize that is what Wroclaw is saying. I'm not going to change my answer or remain silent just to agree with some party-line. Is that what you're suggesting I should do? Is that what YOU would do?

The fact that Wroclaw and I had the same experience in school means that we're about the same age. He might be ten or fifteen years older. Definitely not more than fifteen years younger. If we were in high school today we would have learned about the holocaust in school and even more so on TV and at the movies.
 
Dogzilla said:
Yes I do realize that is what Wroclaw is saying. I'm not going to change my answer or remain silent just to agree with some party-line. Is that what you're suggesting I should do? Is that what YOU would do?

The fact that Wroclaw and I had the same experience in school means that we're about the same age. He might be ten or fifteen years older. Definitely not more than fifteen years younger. If we were in high school today we would have learned about the holocaust in school and even more so on TV and at the movies.
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Is this a problem for you?

Do you feel that it equates to having the holocaust shoved down your throat by Jewish controlled media?
 
Nick Terry said:
The New York Times has run 56 articles mentioning the word 'Holocaust' in the past 30 days. That's less than two a day, and there was only one story which made the front page. Most appear in the Arts and Books sections (29 results, i.e. already more than 50%), followed by Movies and Theater (11 stories) - 40 in all.








I invite you and Saggy to show that the "Holocaust industry" (which we will assume means a museum or organisation like USHMM) had anything to do with more than 3 of those stories in the past month.

Just in case you're confused, novelists, film directors, playwrights, theatres, art galleries and whatnot are not part of any kind of 'Holocaust Industry'. And the arts section doesn't tend to run on the frontpage, which is the only way that a newspaper could 'shove' something down anyone's throat.

The NYT, in case you haven't realised, should have an above average number of stories on the Holocaust because there is a not insignificant local constituency for the subject. You're welcome to show how whichever Gannett press title you read in your backwater hick town carries even more stories, but somehow I don't think you're going to manage to do that.
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FIFTY-SIX?!??! And this proves YOUR point?
 
Dogzilla said:
If we were in high school today we would have learned about the holocaust in school and even more so on TV and at the movies.
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I call bullflop on "even more on TV and at the movies". Are you seriously arguing that high school students religiously watch the History Channel? If they don't, where are they going to encounter the Holocaust as anything more than a passing, peripheral mention on American or British TV?

As for the movies, it's a simple matter to tot up box office receipts and see that there's no way that more than a vanishingly small fraction of the cinema-going public ever bothers to see a Holocaust-related movie. And they won't be teenagers, by and large, since such movies tend to be aimed at older audiences and most often fit into the arthouse/serious bracket.

Maybe if you altered the point to say "has a vague memory of seeing a trailer for The Reader in 2008, but didn't actually see the movie", you might be nearer the mark.
 
Dogzilla said:
FIFTY-SIX?!??! And this proves YOUR point?
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Given that the NYT is the local paper of record for a city with one of the largest Jewish populations in the world, I actually expected more hits. Just checked the Guardian and the number drops to 37 hits for the last month.

The Sun, which is pretty much the biggest paper in the UK, has run precisely two stories in the whole of 2011 which made any reference to the Holocaust. In 2009 and 2010 the number rose to three stories, and the year before that there were 4, which is the highest it goes back to 2002.

The two 2011 stories in the Sun both relate to this rugby player who made silly remarks. In the Guardian, six of the stories related to the Samoan player, one to a nuclear holocaust reference and two to Cannibal Holocaust. So the number of real stories mentioning the Holocaust was more like 28.

In the Guardian, three of the news stories related to the latest outburst from Ahmadinejad, so you don't get those. If Ahmadinejad is Mr Revisionist then you can't complain if he brings it up and the newspapers report on it. So we're down to 25 stories. Mostly arts-related, as in the New York Times.

That simply begs the question: how are you going to legislate against artists and writers discussing the subject? Or does the prohibition come in at the critic level?

How are you going to legislate against commentators and people offering their opinions to reporters making occasional passing references to historical events?

In the last month, there were 35 references to Stalin and 79 to Hitler in the Guardian. The Holocaust is just another cultural reference point by this stage. People throw around 'Hitler' and 'Stalin' with total abandon. Searching The Sun for 'Hitler' references (31 so far in 2011, 24 in 2010), you find stories about some local councillor belonging to the Liberal Democrats being labelled a 'Hitler' on a website.

None of this adds up to the 24/7 "Holocaust propaganda" of Clayton Moore's fantasies.
 
Nick Terry said:
That simply begs the question: how are you going to legislate against artists and writers discussing the subject?
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Nick, you can't bet that dumb. There is legislation in every European country that bans any discussion of the holohoax that exposes it.

Maybe you should ask yourself why only one 'historical event' is protected by law from critical examination. When you figure out the answer you'll understand the holohoax.
 
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